New players who want the same advantages as people playing today will likely have to put in 4-5x the credit investment. I was able to complete 2 resistance curios by buying 50 pieces and trading; new players will have to buy many, many more because trading will not be practical for them.

Shamarah:

The real problem with curios is that 2-3 months out it's going to be basically impossible to complete the set you want without dumping hundreds and hundreds of credits on pieces. So this is basically a permanent advantage that people playing now get on new players.

This, kinda. I would be pushing this point more, if it wasn't so negligible, but I was thinking of this also when Estarra said the travel set is the last set, and needs to be more expensive. Except that these are supposed to be permanent additions to the shop. I wonder what's going to happen with all of my alts, and all of everyone else's alts, and every other new player who is interested in having a collection. Doesn't seem like a last item to me, then again maybe their 'lastness' is determined by how desirable the individual effect is. I guess if I had to rank them it would go something like Buff > Resistance > Enchantment > Travel, so in that sense they're last.

Who cares about 200 enchantment charges when you can just rune the jewelry and attach a regulator?

Zarquan:

Who cares about 200 enchantment charges when you can just rune the jewelry and attach a regulator?

Who cares about completing 18 different travel curios to get +1 movement in not-even-every-environment when you can just get winged sandals + trotting? If you're really stuck after those two, join a cult for deiparousspeed. :|

The enchantment one's nicer than the travel one, that doesn't mean it's awesome though.

I've had this argument before with someone else. I'm a lazy bastard, and I will prefer non-decaying items that can hold enchantments all day over things I have to upkeep, even if it is once every three real months. I'm also Acro, so movement means even less to me

I've had this argument before with someone else. I'm a lazy bastard, and I will prefer non-decaying items that can hold enchantments all day over things I have to upkeep, even if it is once every three real months. I'm also Acro, so movement means even less to me

Well, putting a jewellery rune on it makes it permanent for 50cr, but by golly they are neater than regular jewellery (and thus that makes them more valuable than the travel curios).

I can get Perfection from my spiderweb, or burn an icewall down with my wooden toy soldier. My razor is enchanted with Kingdom.

Right. I guess I left something out, the context of the last argument was why I bother to attach runes to jewlery

Some people already have 23 pieces of runed jewelry.

Zarquan:

Some people already have 23 pieces of runed jewelry.

I had some, I detached and traded in the runes (woo pliers?) for other artifact sale stuff.

I could have just traded them in directly, but detaching is more fun. I like to feel I'm getting good use out of the pliers.

Zarquan:

Who cares about 200 enchantment charges when you can just rune the jewelry and attach a regulator?

Who cares about 10 DMP when you can just rune the jewelry and oh wait

I think this is the very last thing I'm going to say on this topic - it's obviously a very rough spot for some people. I think some of the curios (actually, all three of the previous sets) were probably achieved at a much lower cost than they would have been if they were a straight artifact. At one point we'd ran the numbers and it looked like just buying crates for curios would be a pretty expensive endeavour (assuming one never traded). We tried to ensure their value was appropriate for that, for the credit crates - 200 charge, not-needing-to-be-worn enchantable items (I recall this being a complaint by some envoys, re the environment rings and needing more enchantment slots etc) being just one example. As an artifact, these would probably be realistically priced in the 5-700 credit range, I'd suspect - I think they'd sell pretty high on auctions, at least. Probably moreso prior to the regulator contraptions.

The same goes for +DMP, +% damage boosts - while they ultimately don't add up to too much after War and other + damage boosts stack on, they're still nice and min-maxers tend to be willing to go quite a bit at them. Again, 500-700 credits is probably pretty solid in terms of an expected price (probably closer to 500 though, imo).

When it comes to the travel curios, Estarra has said we don't view them solely as their +celerity bonus, but also as the final 'key' to completing a set. They're expensive. We acknowledge this. That is deliberate. From our perspective, you're not paying for +celerity, you're paying for +celerity and a cubix-type item. It's probably the least powerful out there (as it only goes to one room and does not take you 'back' anywhere), but it's for gold. I really do believe the costs of the previous sets are, stand alone, justifiable for their costs. This suggests to me the cost of the travel curios should also consider the benefit of the complete set. In other words, I will gladly argue that the cost of the curio collection 'power' falls mostly on the travel curio, in each collection. You can disagree with me, and that's fine. We don't have to agree on everything.

Xenthos:

Finally, the administration does not decide what is reasonable. They set the price. The players that buy (or refuse to buy) are the ones who actually have the final say on that, and there's not really anything wrong with pointing out a low purchase rate.

Quite true. By no means are we twisting your arm or requiring you to buy the last curio, complete sets, or any curio. If you do not feel the price justifies the purchase, I will not blame you if you decide not to buy one. Certainly, I would even suggest that if you do not feel the cost justifies the purchase, do not buy one. The very last thing I want to hear is that someone bought something they didn't want and then complain that their cost wasn't justified and they said so to begin with. Please, do not buy them if you don't want to, or if you don't believe they're worth their price and sits outside your willingness to pay, don't.

You're even welcome to point out that you feel more would be sold at a lower price. I won't disagree. However, it's been stated there was more than simply a gold sink at hand - and, as we've removed a fair chunk of the bloat, I don't think it's been an unsuccessful gold sink, either. Estarra has said the cost was intended to be prohibitive, that curios were intended to be completed in singles and we only expected one set a person to be done.

You can disagree with that intention, but I don't think pointing out that you think more should be sold, and more would be sold at a lesser price, every few posts helps your point. I promise you - we've heard you. At worst, we can agree to disagree. Yelling it from the mountain tops isn't going to help your cause, however. I think, at every point, we've been pretty obliging, helpful, and fairly straightforward. I really feel like any time I try to engage, I'm faced with the same arguments and the same opinions from the same people. It's okay - I by no means want to strip or deny you of your opinion! You have every right to one! But, again, I think you've been heard loud and clear. I may even agree with you on some of the finer points - ie we may very well sell more if we cut the price some - but a gold sink isn't our only intention.

Like I said, I think this is the last time I'm going to interject into the topic. I feel like we've said what we have to say, and it's just going to go in circles.

Whoa 500-700 credits, hahaha. I'd never pay that much for something you can get for 250 credits in a rune (permanent, more enchantments) by slapping it on a brooch (doesn't take up a ring slot), and paying a minor gold cost for a regulator (that becomes permanent). That would be outrageous overpricing. Same goes for the +dmp curios. Why would the cost that much when for the majority of the game, a magic damage rune would be much better, and cheaper at that? 400 credits for a +10% outside of dmp, or 500 credits for +10 dmp.


I think what we're really looking for here is a response to what has been said, and if any of it has been taken into consideration, not so much a restating of what's been said already.

Estarra says that these were intended to have the cost of the entire collection folded in. Any response to the idea that any curio could equally stop you from getting or unlock for you the collection power?

Estarra says that these are intended to be expensive. Any response to the idea that their cost will make it harder for those who will pony up to collect?

Estarra says that they will be open for purchasing in the future, so people can save up and buy them when they can. Any response to the idea that after the rush is over, it will become drastically harder to obtain trades?

Are we being heard loud and clear, and being ignored?

I'm not trying to be a caustic player. I'm really not. I've said it, and I will repeat, and I think I'm speaking for everyone, I have thoroughly enjoyed this promotion. And I will say again, and this is the part that maybe everyone doesn't agree with, this round has essentially ruined that feeling.

REDACTED. I know when what I'm saying is wrong

Please think of this next time you decide to run a promotion. I'll be thinking about it when I'm deciding whether I need to spend money on it or not.

I dunno. First thing I though when I heard that the final curios were going to cost twice as much was, "Gouging!". I sincerely hope that this wasn't you intention, but it is pretty suspicious that, after making the first three sets reasonably priced enough that many people collected not one, but several sets, all the while being promised undisclosed set bonuses, you would suddenly increase the price on the final set. What that says to me is "Look how much money you've already spent on this set; it would be a shame not to finish it.". It seems to me that a canny businessman might realize that he could take advantage the tendency to escalate commitment in order to price gouge at the very end.

I really hope that such thoughts did not go through the admins' heads when deciding on pricing. That would be slimy.

foolofsound:

I really hope that such thoughts did not go through the admins' heads when deciding on pricing. That would be slimy.

I always sigh when I hear those kinds of accusations (often more pointed than this). Realize only 3 admin get paid (Estarra, Iosai, Roark) - and they get paid irrelevant of what Lusternia makes. Those gods who poured lots into making curios (I wasn't even among them, beyond some of the collection rooms etc) don't get paid. When I was voicing my opinion on pricing, I didn't (and don't) get paid. I have absolutely 0 vested interest in how much you do or do not put into buying credits, beyond enjoying my completely voluntary, free work that I put in because, well, I'm immensely fond of Estarra and Lusternia, and (on most days!), its playerbase.

That said, I don't know what to tell you. We've said since the beginning, 'most people will only want to complete one set.' 'The powers aren't that great that you'll complete multiple sets.' 'They are going to be very expensive.' I feel like I've said this enough times that people who feel 'cheated' out of completing multiple sets make me want to throw my hands up in the air. I won't deny them their feelings or tell them they're wrong, but I feel like we've all said this enough times that I don't know what to say anymore.

As to the accusations, implied or otherwise, of being 'slimy' - I've said it a dozen times and I'm sure I will a dozen times more in the future. Lusternia is probably the most giving game in all of IRE. Ascension prizes, quest rewards, promotions. What other game gives out thousands and thousands of credits, hand-over-fist, for nine different events once a year, not all of which are combat based? With top prizes being a cubix/circlet combo? And again with pretty generous rewards during our Anniversary. Every year we give players the opportunity to perform a pretty simple, mid-level quest for 25 dingbats. On more than one occasion we've had events that awarded dingbats for participation (Dolly d'Amour, Leprechauns yearly, some of the gnome events have been pretty high-reward as well). Heck, I sometimes am distinctly of the opinion our generosity has gotten the better of us at times - the number of torus sales, for example, makes me cringe. For the last month it's been half the price of a cubix, near enough. We have quests that reward 'orgbix' artifacts, which perform much of the functionality of a cubix.

I'm sure I could go on. But the notion that we're sitting up here twirling our mustaches all the way to the bank just, well, it doesn't sit well, to put it kindly. Again, by no means do I wish to strip you of your opinion or right to it, but I've definitely lost interest in continuing discussing it at this point. Like my work in Lusternia is voluntary, so is my participation in this thread. And when the accusations get to be pointed and outright offensive, I really just don't feel like it's appropriate for me to be involved anymore.

We need IronCon 2013 to get here already. There's nothing a few rounds of drinks, food, and laughter can't fix!

Eventru:


I always sigh when I hear those kinds of accusations (often more pointed than this). Realize only 3 admin get paid (Estarra, Iosai, Roark) - and they get paid irrelevant of what Lusternia makes. Those gods who poured lots into making curios (I wasn't even among them, beyond some of the collection rooms etc) don't get paid. When I was voicing my opinion on pricing, I didn't (and don't) get paid. I have absolutely 0 vested interest in how much you do or do not put into buying credits, beyond enjoying my completely voluntary, free work that I put in because, well, I'm immensely fond of Estarra and Lusternia, and (on most days!), its playerbase.

That said, I don't know what to tell you. We've said since the beginning, 'most people will only want to complete one set.' 'The powers aren't that great that you'll complete multiple sets.' 'They are going to be very expensive.' I feel like I've said this enough times that people who feel 'cheated' out of completing multiple sets make me want to throw my hands up in the air. I won't deny them their feelings or tell them they're wrong, but I feel like we've all said this enough times that I don't know what to say anymore.

As to the accusations, implied or otherwise, of being 'slimy' - I've said it a dozen times and I'm sure I will a dozen times more in the future. Lusternia is probably the most giving game in all of IRE. Ascension prizes, quest rewards, promotions. What other game gives out thousands and thousands of credits, hand-over-fist, for nine different events once a year, not all of which are combat based? With top prizes being a cubix/circlet combo? And again with pretty generous rewards during our Anniversary. Every year we give players the opportunity to perform a pretty simple, mid-level quest for 25 dingbats. On more than one occasion we've had events that awarded dingbats for participation (Dolly d'Amour, Leprechauns yearly, some of the gnome events have been pretty high-reward as well). Heck, I sometimes am distinctly of the opinion our generosity has gotten the better of us at times - the number of torus sales, for example, makes me cringe. For the last month it's been half the price of a cubix, near enough. We have quests that reward 'orgbix' artifacts, which perform much of the functionality of a cubix.

I'm sure I could go on. But the notion that we're sitting up here twirling our mustaches all the way to the bank just, well, it doesn't sit well, to put it kindly. Again, by no means do I wish to strip you of your opinion or right to it, but I've definitely lost interest in continuing discussing it at this point. Like my work in Lusternia is voluntary, so is my participation in this thread. And when the accusations get to be pointed and outright offensive, I really just don't feel like it's appropriate for me to be involved anymore.

This is a good point Eventru, and I think its worth your effort in repeating. I for one lost sight of these things, even though I know all of them to be true.

But look, sometimes I just wish you would acknowledge, in no uncertain terms, that even if the administration outright disagrees with what the players are saying, that you can AT LEAST see where we are coming from, and never once have I seen such a thread. (I'm happy to edit more of my posts if it turns out that I'm wrong).

I haven't spent a dime of real money on this promotion that I wouldn't have already spent in August, but I'm sure there are people that have. Can you not see the resulting frustration?

EDIT: I was also just trolled by your forum signature link

As an aside from this price discussion, a big, big thank you so far to the folk who've helped contribute to my little side project! Of the collections, just the toy, mechanical, and flower are left for curibix connections.

In terms of ambients, I'm still looking for those of the ear, swan, sun, bumblebee, lily, knucklebone, feather, blindfold, spider, penknife, and donkey. If you come across them, I'd appreciate it!

Even if the admin reduced the price now, certain players would just put this event in the "admin caving to player demands/whining yet again" section of their grudge list. I know I would smile ruefully at least.

It's not fun being admin, heh.

P.S. I am down with nerfing bixes to require full health/mana/ego before working, if not more.

Prices are what they are. Curios aren't meant to be astonishing. The admins aren't slimy. None of that concerns me, really. I don't feel cheated or heated or anything. My thought, though, for the future:

I think I like the idea that what players can expect (especially in terms of what prices will be) should be more clearly set out. The admin had talked down the values of completed collections and individual curio powers from the beginning, as Eventru pointed out. Nevertheless, people get excited about new things, and want to buy. This led to a very clear surge of purchasing, which nobody could fail to notice. Yes, the administration was straightforward in their view of the value of the curios from the beginning. I just wish the players' view had been considered (as it was so faulty), and that more had been done to set them straight, rather than just marching forward with the same level of emphasis.