Lerad2012-10-03 07:26:59
Evade is useful as a slightly slower leap (that you don't need a beast for). Useful when you don't feel like igniting icewalls, or want them to stay to delay your opponent as you run away. (Or for getting around OP'd stonewalls, lolol) I'm pretty sure evade also doesn't avoid on-enter/exit effects, but I don't evade into enemy fortified rooms much, so I could be wrong. Either way, this means that Esano's idea has a niche that might work for it.
Some considerations as to the implications of such an ability:
1) I'm not sure if trackers will be happy about possibly 2 archetypes getting immunity to their traps, but if it is implemented as a trans burst skill with sufficient costs, their whining can be ignored. At the very least, I will be very, very happy about becoming immune to briarwall/rad-fused/sleepmist demesnes, if nothing else.
2) Of course, we should also keep in mind that this has only effective application in very situational circumstances. Like Malarious pointed out, if there is time or a lack of urgency, those who depend on their on-enter/exit effects can simply wait out the burst effect if they don't want to fight with a disadvantage. A stand-off will also see limited use, even if the acrobat can walk into an enemy fortified room without triggering pits et all, a single web or vine will pin them down easily enough. On the flip side, hyper+scissorkick combinations might become too easy to pull off.
3) It will have greatest synergy with stealth deepcover, possibly avoiding immediate detection via spectacles as well as on-enter alerts (like spiritsinger ancestralcall, demesne watch etc), and that will, of course, mean it is less useful for non-stealth guilds. On the other hand, this will give non-stealth guilds at least some form of infiltration, the lack of which has been grumbled about in the past, iirc. (This depends on whether the new ability will be also affect those alerts, of course)
On the other suggestions, allowing eq to be comboable with bal is definitely not going to be acceptable. A damage buff is also not something I can recommend - there's no point in trying to nerf monk damage if you just put it back in a tert. Halving curing balances is something I personally don't think is needed in an already defensively orientated skillset (even though I would love to have it). I don't think warriors will appreciate it very much if acrobats can quickly undo what little wound/aff buildup they have struggled to make. Crit bonus is nice, but not really worth putting onto a trans ability unless it is significantly strong... and we don't want to buff an archetype's (two, in this case) bashing to the point where it is significantly better than the others. The ages old complaints about the (questionable) potency of monk bashing have finally been put to rest with damageshift and mob resistances, we don't want to revisit it again.
I can support power reduction/regeneration, though the implications of that will also be a headache to mull over, it may well be worth the effort, especially since power is a resource that bards have always been sorely tried by. If some kind of burst mechanic that helps power moves can be balanced with appropriate costs and/or cooldowns, it may open up avenues for future bard changes that don't get stuck in the "we're already too power-dependant for this change to benefit us, but this change cannot be implemented without a power cost!" catch-22. As for monks and power, well, some monk guilds can already near permanently prone with no power or momentum cost, and the most egregrious of damage multipliers that give monks their oft-complained about damage comes from non-power sources... so I think worrying about over-buffing monks with a reduction of power restriction is misplaced, at least in the current scheme of things.
Some considerations as to the implications of such an ability:
1) I'm not sure if trackers will be happy about possibly 2 archetypes getting immunity to their traps, but if it is implemented as a trans burst skill with sufficient costs, their whining can be ignored. At the very least, I will be very, very happy about becoming immune to briarwall/rad-fused/sleepmist demesnes, if nothing else.
2) Of course, we should also keep in mind that this has only effective application in very situational circumstances. Like Malarious pointed out, if there is time or a lack of urgency, those who depend on their on-enter/exit effects can simply wait out the burst effect if they don't want to fight with a disadvantage. A stand-off will also see limited use, even if the acrobat can walk into an enemy fortified room without triggering pits et all, a single web or vine will pin them down easily enough. On the flip side, hyper+scissorkick combinations might become too easy to pull off.
3) It will have greatest synergy with stealth deepcover, possibly avoiding immediate detection via spectacles as well as on-enter alerts (like spiritsinger ancestralcall, demesne watch etc), and that will, of course, mean it is less useful for non-stealth guilds. On the other hand, this will give non-stealth guilds at least some form of infiltration, the lack of which has been grumbled about in the past, iirc. (This depends on whether the new ability will be also affect those alerts, of course)
On the other suggestions, allowing eq to be comboable with bal is definitely not going to be acceptable. A damage buff is also not something I can recommend - there's no point in trying to nerf monk damage if you just put it back in a tert. Halving curing balances is something I personally don't think is needed in an already defensively orientated skillset (even though I would love to have it). I don't think warriors will appreciate it very much if acrobats can quickly undo what little wound/aff buildup they have struggled to make. Crit bonus is nice, but not really worth putting onto a trans ability unless it is significantly strong... and we don't want to buff an archetype's (two, in this case) bashing to the point where it is significantly better than the others. The ages old complaints about the (questionable) potency of monk bashing have finally been put to rest with damageshift and mob resistances, we don't want to revisit it again.
I can support power reduction/regeneration, though the implications of that will also be a headache to mull over, it may well be worth the effort, especially since power is a resource that bards have always been sorely tried by. If some kind of burst mechanic that helps power moves can be balanced with appropriate costs and/or cooldowns, it may open up avenues for future bard changes that don't get stuck in the "we're already too power-dependant for this change to benefit us, but this change cannot be implemented without a power cost!" catch-22. As for monks and power, well, some monk guilds can already near permanently prone with no power or momentum cost, and the most egregrious of damage multipliers that give monks their oft-complained about damage comes from non-power sources... so I think worrying about over-buffing monks with a reduction of power restriction is misplaced, at least in the current scheme of things.
Janalon2012-10-04 07:34:12
So is there enough agreement on the proposed solutions to move this thread back into a report?
Asmodea2012-10-04 09:25:38
Janalon:
So is there enough agreement on the proposed solutions to move this thread back into a report?
I believe so, so I have gone ahead and rewritten one.
Janalon2012-10-04 10:27:46
Thank you! I'm looking forward to this report with my fingers crossed for the best.
