I don't really want to get into the nitty gritty of it (or into an argument with you), but I don't think you really know what you're talking about here.

Everyone has their own preferences on what they think are the best, however it all boils down to what you feel more comfortable using and which you can utilize better yourself, not what someone else says. Enjoy whatever you choose and you will do fine.

Enyalida:

I don't really want to get into the nitty gritty of it (or into an argument with you), but I don't think you really know what you're talking about here.

lol ok, resort to insults when I show you how you're wrong.

I refuted your points so I obviously don't know what I'm talking about. None of your 'cons' in ecology are 'cons' in my point of view and I pointed out why. Affliction reliability? Allergies and snakebane take care of that, you are pretty much guaranteed to get the affs you want. Weaker afflictions? freezing, prone, broken legs, stupidity,recklessness, blindness, plus a variety of situational ones are all pretty nice actually. Synergy with sap? I've pointed out how it synergizes with sap.

Next time before you say 'you don't know what you're talking about.' Maybe you should make some points that are actual points and not just based on your own personal failures with a skillset. Your mindset in this game is terrible, and it pretty much boils down to 'well I can't make this work, so it can't work ever.' Probably the most terrible outlook someone can have. I didn't resort to calling you inept (though your arguments routinely do this for you), I stuck to arguments and the points that were being made.

I think any druid tert has great synergy with allergies because allergies is great, it's too powerful even with the nerf (can you even call it that?) Dreamweaving is just as viable (and maybe it works better with HS's passive amnesia, stagstomp etc), but for BT I think eco is the way to go. That's my opinion for the reasons I've stated. Considering you've always been a subpar druid, you should probably stick to what works best for you in the OP allergy era. Even you can succeed now.

Saying that you're mistaken on this subject isn't an insult, I'm genuinely sorry if it came off that way. I'm trying to stay away from generalizing statements about you, how you play the game, and any sort of judgement on your character or skill levels you may possess. None of that has anything to do with having incorrect information, or having drawn a (perfectly reasonable, but also incorrect) set of conclusions.

Really, I'm going to leave any sort of judgements made on your character to the reader. Review my posts, where what I've said above holds true, and to your posts, where it does not.

In short:
You're overestimating the role of allergies and were mistaken (common mistakes, however) on the viability of some of those poison combinations. The problem with poisons is that while some of the afflictions are quite nice (recklessness, for instance), they do not directly contribute to the perpetuation of a sap'lock'. That's not saying that they are always bad, and being able to do them on command isn't great. It's saying that looking at straight combat viability (including 1v1 viability, one of the the original poster's topics of inquiry), the number of poisons that find direct use in perpetuating a solid sap lock, even with allergies, is low. And that to utilize them and get the target to the point where you no longer need to spend 100% of your effort perpetuating the lock and can begin to divert some of that effort towards a kill condition requires a fair amount of luck with smudges and several combos of poisons to achieve goals.

For instance, to begin working towards limb breaks keeping them from cleansing sap, you first need to hit with double morphite. Assuming this has a 100% chance of both poisons hitting, or all three if you use beastspit (more likely), they are asleep for .5 seconds, with metawake that you cannot strip. The balance on using a berserk fetish is a standard balance, about 3.5 seconds. The demesne of a druid hits with paralysis and stupidity as the only two effects that stop standing. Let's also assume they have full allergies. To review:

NOTE: This is all assuming that you weren't off balance from sap, which is not the case.
-Allergies at max, sap is on a 1 second delay.
-Double sleep hits. They are unable to make commands for .5 seconds. You are off balance for ~3.5 seconds.
-Demesne hits. They are now affed with paralysis and stupidity, those being the only relevant afflictions to this scenario.
-They begin to focus body. This takes 1 second to send.
-They immediately send STAND. This takes 1 second to send. By the time this goes through, the 1 second of focus body time has ended, and they stand.
-2.5 seconds have gone by. They have successfully stood up 1 full second before you get eq back.

In other words, any time you attempt the morphite into broken legs combo you described, you're setting yourself back 1 second. You have to depend on the 33% chance stupidity, and that's IF stupidity hit the target, which is a further 33% chance. That's enough to cure another aff that stops cleanse (which isn't many of them), or to start rubbing cleanse. Any latency on their part in this example is countered by an equal potential latency on the part of the druid. Sorry, that doesn't help perpetuate a sap lock.

The main broken thing about sap right now is the entangle locking that can take place against players without an anti-entangle skill like contort or akhchu. It is a problem that a druid can (Assuming no passives are hitting them, like love potion) in a 1v1 situation keep a target entangled well enough that non-super-optimal curing cannot cleanse out, and the druid can get in a single quick-ish action between entangles, to begin to kill you, with luck. I've noticed that some of the better systems, however, anticipate the end of a writhe time and begin the cleanse command a second early, making it hard to begin the sap lock, and get to that point where you can begin trying to lock it in. I'm looking for some way to move druids away from entanglespamming, any help there would be appreciated.

EDIT: And yes, in this I'm assuming that the enemy is just as prepared as you are, and knows that they should have metawake up. It's not that hard to do. Similarly, I'm assuming they are competent fighters/curers and will be making use of things like lovepotion, and curing priorities. Against anyone who does not have curing with priorities, you automatically win. But that's the case with EVERY archetype, so it shouldn't enter into this discussion.

EDIT2: Would you like me to go through and post the numbers for every relevant poison combination? I can also factor in beastspit if you want.

BerserkFetish balance is more like 2 seconds actually, in the realm where every second counts, that's a big deal. In fact, such a big deal you get balance back .5 seconds before they finish curing in your situation. See link for berserk fetish balance times and see below on something bigger.

http://pastehtml.com.../cbrc87n1u.html


You are also looking at using Ecology with demesne ticks solely in your hypothetical situation. Faeriefire/vines is an incredibly powerful skill (it was before allergies, it definitely is now), which adds in more stacking they need to cure first. Yes, you brought this up, but failed to take it into consideration when talking about ecology sap synergy as a whole, which is my point. You don't view skillsets as a whole, but rather individually.

Edit: Thinking berserkfetish takes almost twice as long as it does would cause me to rethink ecology as well, but given that it is indeed two seconds, it's very viable.

Like I said, go with what works for you :)

You'll hardly ever see me agreeing with Sidd, but he's right in that Ecology's afflictions synergize well with Blacktalon. If I had still been playing, it would've been where I moved to next tert-wise. I just went on to greener pastures instead.

Asmodea is right in that it is up to you, and Sidd is right in that any tertiary will synergize well with allergies. Dreamweaving is better for a Hart user due to Stagstomp. However, Dreamweaving is potent in a Blacktalon's hands too. Something I used to do was use passive illusion motes (Hallucination). You'd be amazed at how many systems you can trip up with passive illusioning. I wouldn't ever use memoryloss as an embed, since the blackout is far better used actively. It's a difference of 2-3 seconds embedded versus around 7-8 if you actively use it.

The reason why people may think that Ecology isn't viable is because Lusternia is too used to gimmick-based classes with some form of uncurable affliction if you stay in the room with the person, or classes with an absurd rate of delay-cured afflictions. Ecology boils down to afflictions, and we hardly ever hear of affliction-based offenses in Lusternia. Even so, Ecology gives a Druid some nice affliction potential and if they've sapped and have their opponent properly allergied, those afflictions -will- stick. As far as a lack of instantkill, you will do plenty of damage with sap and sensitivity-cudgel, especially with those new cudgel attacks.

As far as my credibility is concerned, I fought as a Druid and did moderately successful before they had their own tertiary and all these fancy allergies.

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