Lophe2004-11-03 21:04:09
This is what I've been complaining about, and I've been told to stop at it since day one, so instead I kept my silence.
Lemme summarize it in five words:
"Celest is transforming into Shallam."
I do agree with Rilandria, that the city should be more of fanatical towards light. But we're getting these people saying everyday that we should convert those undead dwarven miners instead of trying to destroy them since they're tainted. It's simply ridiculuous. We're not the city of compassion. We're the City of Light. The same disease which infects Achaea's Shallam with complacency is starting to affect certain citizens of Celest. It's good that there are still prominent zealous people, like the Prince, and I hope it continues, but I'm not optimistic about the way its going.
Lemme summarize it in five words:
"Celest is transforming into Shallam."
I do agree with Rilandria, that the city should be more of fanatical towards light. But we're getting these people saying everyday that we should convert those undead dwarven miners instead of trying to destroy them since they're tainted. It's simply ridiculuous. We're not the city of compassion. We're the City of Light. The same disease which infects Achaea's Shallam with complacency is starting to affect certain citizens of Celest. It's good that there are still prominent zealous people, like the Prince, and I hope it continues, but I'm not optimistic about the way its going.
Unknown2004-11-03 21:07:14
Personally, I didn't really consider Celest as so much of a "religious" city, or as a Lusternian France. I would just like to see Celest as less of a "goody-two-shoes" city, and more willing to do what it takes to gain power and survive, with the spread of religious beliefs secondary to survival and power.
Unknown2004-11-03 22:10:07
New Celest is a city born of the remnants of the Isle of Celest, of all the people who booked it out of there once the Emperors forces came and it was destroyed. Not everything that Celest had in terms of rules and beliefs has to be word for word,hence why our world is so flexible right now to all our player's ideas.
Unknown2004-11-04 02:11:26
I'll have to agree with Lophe here. I can see some Shallamness in Celest, which is definitely something I think a lot of us would not like to see.
Unknown2004-11-04 13:17:28
I think that Celest got their fill last night with the whole Fae thing and Lisaera getting rather irked....it was amusing to finally hear that we/Magnagora are not idiots *evilgrin* It was wonderful.
Asarnil2004-11-04 15:33:20
Heh, I would have hoped at least some of them would have asked Gorgulu _why_ he wanted Fae corpses, though I must admit that a lot of Magnagorians probably would have fallen into the same stupid trap.
Rhysus2004-11-04 15:36:25
It was a great event. I loved being a part of the whole thing. Can't wait to see where it all leads, it will definitely help to liven up some of the culture and stop people from immediately assuming Serenwilde is going to favour Celest in everything.
Rilandria2004-11-04 15:47:50
QUOTE (Rhysus @ Nov 4 2004, 10:36 AM)
It was a great event. I loved being a part of the whole thing. Can't wait to see where it all leads, it will definitely help to liven up some of the culture and stop people from immediately assuming Serenwilde is going to favour Celest in everything.
I hated it. I can't believe you all listened to Erion.
I was really, really disappointed about that...
Unknown2004-11-04 15:52:18
I don't really think it's a simple event... it seems, like the Inner Sea, to be a constant, ongoing thing. Nil must be protected, etc.
And, if you read public news 59, you get Rexali's views on the taint.
And, if you read public news 59, you get Rexali's views on the taint.
Dumihru2004-11-04 16:01:48
Edit: I've deleted this post. While the OOC motivations are annoying and their effects do impact any desire I have to login, any questions that Dumihru has on Rhysus' character's motivations need to be asked in-game.
My apologies for bringing this here.
My apologies for bringing this here.
Rilandria2004-11-04 16:34:48
QUOTE (Dumihru @ Nov 4 2004, 11:01 AM)
That was probably one of the most horrible things to login to. It was like someone flipped a switched and turned the entire city upside-down.
I understand that there was an OOC motivation to differentiate Celest from Shallam, and add more conflict. The thing is that there was nearly no IC motivation for it that I can tell. The only possible reasoning that I can see is that 15(?) people, including an intelligent city leader had a long moment of stupidity where they:
1) "forgot" to question a rather vague pronouncement in more depth, regardless of the possible ramifications of following the current interpreation
2) "forgot" that there are 4 other demon lords
3) "forgot" that two supernals were killed without any such preparation. This is assuming, logically, that the supernals are parallel, if opposite to their counterparts in Nil.
4) "forgot" that Celest as a city is so weak as it is that all of the citizens willing to fight are constantly sick and tired of having to defend against Magnagoran raids, save dwarf spirits, defend the sea, power the star, and on and on... often while at a disadvantage in numbers, might, and strength. Any rational city leader is going to look for alternatives before creating yet another enemy, and worse and enemy with a monopoly on alchemy.
5) "forgot" that the person in question had already acted on questionable data previously.
If Celest loses citizens over this, I wouldn't be surprised. That's not going to help it develop into a strong enough city to promote the conflict that will make the world interesting. It's going to turn it into the world's whipping dog.
I understand that there was an OOC motivation to differentiate Celest from Shallam, and add more conflict. The thing is that there was nearly no IC motivation for it that I can tell. The only possible reasoning that I can see is that 15(?) people, including an intelligent city leader had a long moment of stupidity where they:
1) "forgot" to question a rather vague pronouncement in more depth, regardless of the possible ramifications of following the current interpreation
2) "forgot" that there are 4 other demon lords
3) "forgot" that two supernals were killed without any such preparation. This is assuming, logically, that the supernals are parallel, if opposite to their counterparts in Nil.
4) "forgot" that Celest as a city is so weak as it is that all of the citizens willing to fight are constantly sick and tired of having to defend against Magnagoran raids, save dwarf spirits, defend the sea, power the star, and on and on... often while at a disadvantage in numbers, might, and strength. Any rational city leader is going to look for alternatives before creating yet another enemy, and worse and enemy with a monopoly on alchemy.
5) "forgot" that the person in question had already acted on questionable data previously.
If Celest loses citizens over this, I wouldn't be surprised. That's not going to help it develop into a strong enough city to promote the conflict that will make the world interesting. It's going to turn it into the world's whipping dog.
I know I was tempted to leave.
I don't even see how you can be so calm about it Rhysus. We aren't going to just sit back and try to "move on". We have to fix it.
Erion in the past has proven to believe false information because he thinks it will "help". Frankly, he's just horribly gullable.
Next time you choose your leaders, Rhysus, I hope you don't trust the people you did this time. It was very, very foolish, and it made the game a lot less fun for many Celestians.
Carline2004-11-04 17:00:18
Many errors where made in the process i agree , and much needs to be done in order to restore , but this said i had rarely if ever seen the city work together as much as last night , either with fighting and i'm not talking about the event of the fae killings as i was not there to notice it all .. but after it happened and what ever else needed to be done to recover .. I don't see the point in Rhysus not being calm .. if it were other wise i would be worried at the decisions he could make . I still strongly think that in the future the tables will turn , Magnagora will at some point make mistakes and those should be taken advantage of .. i did't see those event as dicouraging more a challenge perhaps i just like chaos and strong actions .. what i found sad was people targetting each other on city tells for every simple details .. but that as always been an ongoing problem for Celest . This is just the beginging we have time to adjust and take directions those who wish to follow what the leaders will decide will stay and those who don't will leave .. but i don't think Lusternia was made to be a peacefull place to live in..and obstacles for all three sides will always keep us on our toes .. or so i hope ..
Rhysus2004-11-04 17:15:50
I'm calm about it became I'm looking at it from my perspective as a player, Rilandria. For Rhysus, the whole situation was terrible. Horrible. One of the worst days of any of my character's lives in the past 6 years. But the entire dynamic of the situation from an OOC perspective is marvelous. The number of factors that came together to cause all of us to become so paranoid and reject common reason were really orchestrated on a brilliant level.
As for picking leaders, well, I'll just say that I'm never a big fan of Divine appointments to any position, ministers included. We'll see what happens, but some people have been doing a good job, others, less so.
Everything will be fine. Life goes on. We're not even out of Open Beta yet, give it some time for the quests to be tweaked to a balance point. In the mean time, I'm pretty confident Celest isn't going to get wiped off the face of the Basin.
As for picking leaders, well, I'll just say that I'm never a big fan of Divine appointments to any position, ministers included. We'll see what happens, but some people have been doing a good job, others, less so.
Everything will be fine. Life goes on. We're not even out of Open Beta yet, give it some time for the quests to be tweaked to a balance point. In the mean time, I'm pretty confident Celest isn't going to get wiped off the face of the Basin.
Typhus2004-11-04 17:21:22
Conflict breeds power, trust, and carves out the weaker factions within a city (I mean not just combat wise, but the mental, belief, and value weak). If Celest thinks they are just going to be given time to get to their feet, they need to wake up. Magnagora will do everything in it's power to advance Mangagora... Even if it means over Celest. So, in the future, I do hope Celest has better judgement on their own part, because ruling a complient nation is a Roleplay bore.
Unknown2004-11-04 17:54:37
Definitely destroyed the opinion of Serenwilde leaning to Celest.
Rilandria2004-11-04 18:01:25
QUOTE (Rhysus @ Nov 4 2004, 12:15 PM)
I'm calm about it became I'm looking at it from my perspective as a player, Rilandria. For Rhysus, the whole situation was terrible. Horrible. One of the worst days of any of my character's lives in the past 6 years. But the entire dynamic of the situation from an OOC perspective is marvelous. The number of factors that came together to cause all of us to become so paranoid and reject common reason were really orchestrated on a brilliant level.
As for picking leaders, well, I'll just say that I'm never a big fan of Divine appointments to any position, ministers included. We'll see what happens, but some people have been doing a good job, others, less so.
Everything will be fine. Life goes on. We're not even out of Open Beta yet, give it some time for the quests to be tweaked to a balance point. In the mean time, I'm pretty confident Celest isn't going to get wiped off the face of the Basin.
As for picking leaders, well, I'll just say that I'm never a big fan of Divine appointments to any position, ministers included. We'll see what happens, but some people have been doing a good job, others, less so.
Everything will be fine. Life goes on. We're not even out of Open Beta yet, give it some time for the quests to be tweaked to a balance point. In the mean time, I'm pretty confident Celest isn't going to get wiped off the face of the Basin.
I didn't think it was marvelous at all. I thought it was stupid and unnecessary, if Erion hadn't listened to his whims again we would have known Fae were not the correct thing to feed it.
My point is, it could have been a victory for Celest... if we had done it right in the first place, Shakiniel would have been restored right away, and the Star would never have fallen. But no... instead, Erion felt it was wise to feed it what Nihilists have to feed it.
Utter stupidity. If I had been in Erion's place, I know for damn well sure that would not have happened. Hell, anyone in his place would've known better! That is my problem... it isn't just a 'horrible event' that we need to weep about and move on, it was a mistake of leadership that I do not want to see again in Celest.
Killing Fae to save a Supernal... STUPID!
Unknown2004-11-04 18:02:05
Personally, I'd like to see a faction within Serenwilde become a somewhat more Geurilla faction against the cities... I think it would be an interesting group to have, I mean, it would make sense too, since currently, both the naughty and the nice of the forestral world are confined to the single commune. I'm sure, those who have been influenced by the taint, might take their city-bashing to a more literal level.
Unknown2004-11-04 18:07:01
Most tainted live in leaf blankets under the Ravenwood.
Rhysus2004-11-04 18:08:12
The biggest problem is that a city like Celest is bound to receive all of the pacifists, all of the ex-Shallamites, all of the people who want to be diplomatic about every little thing that goes on. It's just the group dynamic. Molding the city into something more zealous is going to take some time, but I'm confident that it can, and must, be done.
Unknown2004-11-04 18:12:25
Killing small innocent children isnt just horrible by pacifists views and diplomats.
