Celest and Magnagora

by Unknown

Back to Common Grounds.

Unknown2004-11-03 02:40:49
This isn't so much on Good vs Evil, as Guido's post made a point of, as it is the clear contrast between the two, and how it is RPed. So, what are your opinions?

I'm getting a lot of "Celest is good" from a lot of Celestians, and "Magnagora is evil" from the same. Personally, I feel the good/evil thing is overplayed, and isn't so much a part of Lusternia as it was in Achaea/Aetolia and, to a lesser degree, Imperian. I think survival and power are more important, and the differences between cities come from the Taint (in the RP sense).

Anyway, I kind of ran off into the good/evil direction. I just get the feeling that some people have leaked these concepts from Achaea or real life.

How I would like to see the Celest/Magnagora RP is for each city to be fighting for survival and power more than anything else, then using that power to spread their way of life.
Unknown2004-11-03 02:55:32
Its common sense that one side will always call themselves good and the other bad, even if its not true... its not ripping ideas from other games. Calling yourself good -is- just good RP. Despite how 'evil' you may (or may not be) you should always think you're on the side of good.
Zhaine2004-11-03 03:12:44
The ways of life conflict though, which is why there is the general feeling of "Good vs Evil". I'd say Magnagora is getting the whole "All consuming empire" motif down relatively well. They do what it takes to see to it that their empire remains dominant.

What I would like to see is a more fanatical edge to Celest. It is a religiously based city, and it really needs someone to whip it up into a bit of a frenzy. At present it's full of snugglebunnies, whiners and pacifists, though of course not everyone is like that, just the people who seem to do a lot of the ranting and raving and complaining over CT. Like you said Mox, the general tipping is towards "good" when it should be tipping towards "fanaticism"(Which doesn't necessarily make you good, ie spanish inquisition). Rilandria said somewhere else in these forums that we're supposed to be a city full of zealots. And she's right. Too many people talk about peace and such and how "Aw not all those Magnagorans aint so bad, just the ones that keep cleaning us up over in Southgard and Rockholm". The city has proven that on the rare occasions when it fully pulls its finger out, it can accomplish whatever goals it sets it's mind to, because it's got purpose and focus. If you throw in the religious aspect more, as a city dedicated to the Light should be, we'd likely get a lot more done as a city (and not get laughed at so much...they're not gonna let us live down the loss of two Supernals for a while blink.gif )

Ladies and Gentlemen, commence your verbal attacks tongue.gif
Unknown2004-11-03 03:50:19
I agree with you, Zhaine for the most part. Especially about the "snugglebunnies, whiners and pacifists" part. I don't know much about Magnagora, but they do seem to be quite aggressive and willing to fight for what they believe, and they've proved to be quite efficent so for, as I've noticed.

Celest needs some sort of goal or a purpose which the people can accomplish with strong leadership, but it seems that until now it's basically all about defense, hardly ever any offense. It's hard to get anything accomplished when you constantly have to defend your resources and never attack your enemies' villages or such. More zealots and less snugglebunnies is what Celest needs. happy.gif

As for Celest being good or Magnagora being bad, or calling themselves that, it all really depends on one's RP and his point of view.
Daganev2004-11-03 03:57:18
I don't know, Celest seems to be doing a good job with its "don't talk to the enemy" approach. Thats unique to me, and not very preachy
Daevos2004-11-03 04:16:26
Unfortunately some cant resist that urge to "talk to the enemy", and whine about the aggressive stance that Magnagora has taken so far.
Rilandria2004-11-03 05:37:37
QUOTE (Zhaine @ Nov 2 2004, 10:12 PM)
The ways of life conflict though, which is why there is the general feeling of "Good vs Evil". I'd say Magnagora is getting the whole "All consuming empire" motif down relatively well. They do what it takes to see to it that their empire remains dominant.

What I would like to see is a more fanatical edge to Celest. It is a religiously based city, and it really needs someone to whip it up into a bit of a frenzy. At present it's full of snugglebunnies, whiners and pacifists, though of course not everyone is like that, just the people who seem to do a lot of the ranting and raving and complaining over CT. Like you said Mox, the general tipping is towards "good" when it should be tipping towards "fanaticism"(Which doesn't necessarily make you good, ie spanish inquisition). Rilandria said somewhere else in these forums that we're supposed to be a city full of zealots. And she's right. Too many people talk about peace and such and how "Aw not all those Magnagorans aint so bad, just the ones that keep cleaning us up over in Southgard and Rockholm". The city has proven that on the rare occasions when it fully pulls its finger out, it can accomplish whatever goals it sets it's mind to, because it's got purpose and focus. If you throw in the religious aspect more, as a city dedicated to the Light should be, we'd likely get a lot more done as a city (and not get laughed at so much...they're not gonna let us live down the loss of two Supernals for a while  blink.gif )

Ladies and Gentlemen, commence your verbal attacks  tongue.gif


Yep. We're not supposed to be "good" exactly... we're not supposed to be democratic America... we're not supposed to be a place of total freedom and happiness for all. We're supposed to be religious! I wanna see more religion! mad.gif
Daganev2004-11-03 05:39:31
QUOTE (Rilandria @ Nov 2 2004, 09:37 PM)
... we're not supposed to be democratic America...  We're supposed to be religious! I wanna see more religion!  mad.gif


According to the crazy people in my school... you just contradicted yourself.
Rilandria2004-11-03 05:58:10
QUOTE (daganev @ Nov 3 2004, 12:39 AM)
According to the crazy people in my school... you just contradicted yourself.



Hah! I guess at times I am like those crazy people. Though I still believe America is run by rich greedy people more than religion... religion is just a tool politicians use to get voters.

Celest should be all about worship, converting, and all that good stuff... crusading! Come on... where's the religious fire? We should be religious to the point of oppression... that would REALLY blur the lines between Magnagora and Celest, and make it a much more interesting game.
Daganev2004-11-03 06:11:55
YOu have to find something to base your relgion on. Teachings of the supernals, lessons from the various beacons and historical figures. If you don't have set lessons to learn from your religion, your just going to try to copy each person's ideal of how to RP some religious christian, or try to be exactly NOT a religious christian.

Also, only two religions in the world have crusades, CHristans and Muslims. And the only reason they are the majority is because the state powers used religion to control the populace, I would imagine a much more interesting religion could be built around celest, especially if Celestians have to use high magic. I happen to know a lot about religious theory and stuff, but know nothing about Celest, if you want help making a unique religion to Celest, send me a message through the message system here and I'll be more than happy to help.
What would be needed is the names of all the named people in Celestia, and the different names of angels, and "lessons" or ideas that those named creatures in celestia teach. Also information on the old emproeres of old celest would be helpfull.
Vesar2004-11-03 06:50:18
I know this opinion is widely disliked by the majority of New Celest citizens, but I don't think Celest should be religious at all. The city doesn't need to be fanatical. I'd like to see Celest as the center of cultural and economic development in the lands.

Let the tar and feathering begin...
Daganev2004-11-03 06:56:00
I've made a discovery... Celest is France. Large religious population but insists its just the cultural and economic superpower that it isn't *hum*
Unknown2004-11-03 07:19:23
QUOTE (daganev @ Nov 2 2004, 11:56 PM)
I've made a discovery... Celest is France.  Large religious population but insists its just the cultural and economic superpower that it isn't *hum*


ninja.gif
Unknown2004-11-03 11:39:42
More on darker side of Celest, it's a city of racism. We have merian and non-merian quarters in the city, and hey, we even have merian and non-merian quarters in the graveyard. And the merian ones are richer in both cases. What a discrimination, isn't it? Enough to start roleplaying an egoistic zealot Merian who thinks his race is much better then others, and his city is much better then other cities too... ah, in general - Celest should be zealous. It doesn't have to be zealous in religical aspect, but rather in "we are the city of Light, we are better then other cities/towns/people/whatever" aspect.

Ah, and just to add - for people who don't feel like roleplaying such nationalists - people in Magnagora roleplay 'evil' after all, and I doubt that most of them are evil in the real life.
Unknown2004-11-03 16:34:20
Unfortunately, you're right. Achaean/Aetolian concepts have leaked here. Although when people say the opposing city is, "bad", it's good RP if they really mean, "they're bad because they're our enemies, and we hate them."

When I first read about Magnagora, I thought of an industrious, all expanding all consuming and terrible empire. But as I played, it was definetly becoming "dark". The fact that most of the skills are dark and sinister, (e.g devils, scooping out people's insides), didn't really help.
Typhus2004-11-03 16:49:39
One can not forget the horrible Chasm that devours a Geomancers enemies.
Rauros2004-11-03 19:10:29
QUOTE
Enough to start roleplaying an egoistic zealot Merian who thinks his race is much better then others


They're on to me...
Unknown2004-11-03 19:14:35
I pretty much do the "your race sucks" thing as a Viscanti. I just play off of that from the Viscanti Noble Houses and given the more than appropriate attitude of Fain towards some of the other races, it's only too convenient.
Unknown2004-11-03 19:51:49
I feel that Magnagora is doing a fine job of the dominant empire thing. It's not hard to dominate when you've got organization (with leadership, of course) and people who jump at the chance to grab some power for themselves.

New Celest should be a city full of energetic zealots, as Cuber said, but not necessary regarding religion. They could be overzealous about almost anything, even at the individual level. It could be a defining characteristic for the citizens.

Serenwilde, in my opinion, is full of free spirits who live in harmony with nature and tend to the plants. They worship nature and defend nature and the commune with their lives. They pretty much stick to the commune, except for the necessities of trade, because they feel that the cities are unnatural and unnecessary.

I don't see anyone as Good or Evil in this realm, though we can all obviously draw parallels to real life or other IRE games.

The one problem I have with Lusternia versus real life, and it often ruins the roleplaying, is when people assume that Lusternia should follow their own ideas and their character should be a perfect representation of their true selves. The best example of this is people who live in a Democratic society and assume that their city or commune should also be Democratic because it's what they feel works best. Don't try to force your pre-formed notions onto your character. Instead, see this is a great opportunity to expand your mind and try new things!
Carline2004-11-03 20:51:41
I think Dalren explained it well .. it is hard to roleplay as a group when everyone as thier on ideas on what should and should not . And why do we have to be Pacifist .. let tainted ones in the city because they did nothing wrong so far and such .. i cringe every time i hear those words .. I also think Magnagora as done a very good job so far .. i might not agree with all the tacticts they use but if we were half as offensive as them i am sure we could see some great role playing as the goal for our city would be far more different then what it stands now may it be religious or other i tend to think religion is a good idea .. Good vs Evil .. hard to define in my views depends on what side of the fence you are standing on