You seem to fail to realise that it drives further Rp. The city would be blocking them, for they were rebuilt back up as a Viscanti place. It adds to the character of the city itself.

They way you speek, it seems as if you are aginst racism in the game entirely. But it's been placed upon us purposely so that there are conflicts. I believe one of the gods even stated in a thread that the Merians, Viscanti, and Elfen were suppoused ot be particular to certain cities, and that's teh reasoning behind the stat specializations.

It is not lame to pick on races, it's smart. People are constantly complaing how Achaea and oterh's are so lacking in RP, and yet they have problems with that which produce better RP for us here in Lusternia. Thinsg are set up so that we have greatly better opportunities and ways to Rp.

If a city so decides to block races, kick but for them. I makes the game all the more intresting and fun.

Nope, hm... read my previous posts. I said RP racism can generate the great experience of internal struggle, and trying to reach acceptance of an alienated group by the whole. BUT, one thing is cursing at them, viewing them with suspition... practically ostracizing said groups from the whole... than simply being blatant and ban those groups from things that could actually aid the majority in protection of the city and such. People would be made less efficient because they would had obstacles set by the cities regarding this aspects. Hey, they could be socialy alienated, politically ignored... but in the end of things, especially in conflict, the more manpower the best for everyone. So why diminish the efficiency of your manpower?

EDIT: Even the worst of strategist knows it is for the best to use every element within their control, even if it is only for cannon fodder, than entirely thwarting great opportunities and reducing the amount of elements to manipulate.

I think it would be interesting to create a Viscanti, roleplay it being 'captured' by some Celestines, and then roleplaying their experimentation with removing the taint. I imagine the Viscanti would go though horrible pain and then die, not enough left with the taint gone to sustain any sort of life. It could just be a temporary thing, with the Viscanti 'suicide'ing at the end as he dies.

Aye, making it difficult on a particular race to succeed is one thing, totally making it impossible is another.

That IS the cities RP though. They ustterly detest said race so much, that they seek not to have them there at all. Really, it just keep people of that race away, not keeps them there abel to do nothing.

Those that do decide to play that race in said city really prove even better RP, for they are able to deal with the harsh discrimination.

I think you're trying to idealise reacims into somethign where it's not really doing what it should be. Were black slaves in the US just looked down on? no, they were ostracized, blocked form being able to do anythgin at all, etc. That was the culture of teh people then, and it can be teh culture of certain cities to do as they want, and fully encourage certain races to never be part of their city.

Like I said, one doesn't have to stay within the city, you can leave. By deciding to stay, you can provide so much more RP than if you were merely picked on etc.

I know a Viscanti or two, as well as a couple other Taint-touched, who are considering or already willing to let a little fun be had at their expense. The only problem is working out a ritual that may get the Taint out of them without killing them or otherwise greatly screwing them up outright, as has already been said somewhere in these posts... and getting a time where I can pull people out to play around with it, as usually when I get someone to sit and talk, someone in Celest goes out and raids, or some random thing is raided and whoever I have has to go run defend.

Curse you, timing! One of these days, I'll show you! *shakes fist*

Um, yeah. But even in times of black slavery, plantation owners and whoever had slaves had them free. Free enough to work whatever they were supposed to do. Slaves did't have their legs tied up and arms, placed somewhere to do nothing at all whatsover. And a fact in Lusternia is, that you need Power in many skills to work. If you have a viscanti group locked from Power, degraded, humiliated, treated like animals... then you cripple how Viscanti can be effective to the city. Whereas, if you simply execute, make an KKK against Viscanti, degrade them, humiliate them, prevent them from having iny say in the government, ignore their demands, have them working harder than evryone else, have the Viscanti in ghettos somewhere in the far corners of a city... but still allow them to have power, even if it is in small rations... You have an effective Viscanti group, that is of use to your city. Meaning, that you don't cripple their overall usefulness to the city. Heh, you could even make the Viscanti be the first line of defence against raiding parties, or human shileds on an offensive attack... but they would aid you much much more, if they had Power. If not... they will be very limited as to what they will be able to do.

I'd be willing to torture some Taint out of the Tainted! *cough* I mean, cleanse them. Yes, yes. Cleanse.

Desdemona, the way you're looking at it, you're acting as if the people are gonna be there, already. The point is to not have them there.

And I think the DoC are managing fairly well, and yet they don't have power to tap into. Power isn't needed to get by in the world. Thus powerblocking if perfectly fine.

But as I said to begin with, you're expecting the races to be in teh city. They're not. Everything is done to encourage them away form the city.



Exactly! They had to do what they were suppoused to do. They didn't have a sa in the matter, it was obey, or get beaten. And even still, tehy were treated horribly, with horrible living conditions. They were forced to go on with nothing to get them along.

And that's the point of powerblocking. What's the point of keeping filth in your streets, when you dont' want it there at all? They way you're lookign at it is equal to people building walls out of trash and garbage. They don't want it anymore, but it'll work to block people won't it? Powerblovcking a race is saying exactly that: you think said race(s) is/are trash, and don't want any of said types around at all.

Viscanti being powerblocked makes PERFECT sense... come on.. they ARE the Taint.. you can't let it run amuck in the Light. Then again, it is also my opinion that Viscanti should be banned from both the Water and the Celestial planes as well, for the exact same reason.

Actually within a city, especially in times of conflict you would want all the help you can get. Let me further detail you how a Viscanti without powerblocked would be as a useless slave. In a cotton plantation slaves needed the tools to recollect the herbs, tools to transport the herbs, food (no matter how disgusting) to live, houses to have them in. So, even though you hated them and might consider nothing better than a dog... you need them, and because you needed them for your enterprise to succeed for their manpower to manage your mannors, for their work be free and plenty rather than paying some dolt for something you could get done for free. If a Viscanti is powerlocked, you are simply removing him tools that could help the WHOLE in much better ways. And, even when people within a society hated a racial group... they always want them within it. Why? A big debate of slavery was that slaves were making the work, and the owners the profit. So imagine if you remove the entire labor force away. You would have less manpower and a bunch of unwilling people wanting to do their own jobs. Trust me, you can degrade Viscanti like if they were trash, hold them with power rations of 20 monthly, and not take a toll on the cities' efficiency. If you find a Viscanti being useless, you can always gather a group, trap said Viscanti and discipline... Again, manpower is always important, you want more manpower without making the manpower entirely handicapped... that in the end wouldn't matter if you had it to begin with.

As I said, you could even make a Kamikaze Viscanti troop. Have the Viscanti def up, be the first to attack on raids even being suicidal. The same is applicable when defending. Have the Viscanti go meet against the offenders, let them wipe out the first line of offense or distract them. Then let the others enter and join the fight. Use all you have at hand, rather than making what you have at hand useless.

You're assuming way way to much. First off, what's gonna make that viscanti go do your bidding as in to be teh front line of defending/attacking?

Secondly, these races arent' needed at all. The slave thing was brought up solely for the fact that they had nothing of their own, no desicions of their own, etc. Yes, back in those days, slaves were needed, but these races aren't needed to make teh cities go. Else the cities would be going out and trapping them to force them to work and do their bidding.

Point is, these races aren't wanted in cities, and they aren't needed. So, it's very easy to powerblock them, and not have any reprecussions, for they aren't going to be there anyways. And if they are, good for that person wanting to fully work at it, and RP out a way to have said race surviving is said racist city.

Fluorescena, my Viscanti Aquamancer (who is no longer among us, I'm afraid), was a respected member of Celest. After a bit of conflict in the beginning (I think she was the first Viscanti in Celest, or the first outspoken one), the citizens grew to treat her as a member of the community. She participated in defending Magnagoran raids, and she was part of the whole attempt-to-deTaint the sea.

I don't think people should be PUNISHED for their race (except perhaps the Merian and Elfen in Magnagora due to Fain's RP with them), but I don't think they should get special treatment either. They should be able to prove themselves for their race and show that past histories and outward looks matter a lot less than what their personality in.

(Celest): You say, "I know the path I'm walking will be filled with difficulties, but I am prepared to face them head on."
(Celest): You say, "Not all may like my decision, but I don't care. I've chosen my path in the Light, and nothing will stray me from it."

Rest in Peace, Fluorescena.

*creates raiding party to kill sister*

Well, I might've assumed a bit too much. Maybe because I think a minority group within any territory tend to group in order to try get power or at the very least help each other mutually. I don't doubt similarly will be the case within a city. Also, in times of conlict, every citizen has to join the party. If they are "pacifist" they don't have to join the offense, but aid in the defense. But you can need every single person within the a group, because fact is that in places like this the more there is the better. Also, minority groups would probably want to find the acceptance of others in whatever way possible, maybe form a tightly united attack team. Or politically active, even if they are ignored, or pursue the arts and religion.

And like I said, keeping someone under minuscule rations, just as long as you can make sure they can be useful can be way much better in the long run that if you competely ban them from power. Hey, you could even force Viscanti's to yearly render taxes, or report on their income,etc. Forbid them to marry other races within your city, etc. Cool rp factors that you wouldn't have if you completely ousted them from the city.

Also, look who is your enemy. Magnagora, and what does the Magnagora have? Bunch of Vinscanti and the Taint. Why not take advantage of the Vinscanti within Celest? You would have people who would probably be helpful when fighting in tainted lands, since Viscanti have regen inside the taint and immune to poison. Heh, you might as well use the Viscanti as a weapon against the taint itself. As for slaves, yep the Viscanti wouldn't work as slaves just as a socially challenged minority without any political influence on the city whatsoever.

On another note... maybe the approach against of the Taint, rather than destroying it, could be to try alter it into a new strip of "purifying" Taint, trying to revert things to what they were.

As for Viscanti in general, they are mutants a "mixture" race. Don't forget that a Viscanti might as well be your 3rd degree cousin Billy. Why? The Viscanti weren't created by the Taint. The inital Viscanti were people from other races, including Merians, who were transformed from what they were by the Taint. Then those Tainted creatures reproduced having a new generation of Viscanti, and so on until the Viscanti was manipulated enough to be a race of so on. Just imagine on times of when the Taint was unleashed. Your great great grandmother Maude, going pregnant on her chariot along with her husband to assist those people that had been first caught by the taint (the false SOS). What do you have? Maude transforming into a Viscanti along with husband, just to give as offspring another Viscanti.

Besides, there are various ways you can play racism:
One, you entirely hate a group that you want to see it destroyed:
-"Die you Viscanti scum, you die"

Two, where you assume a higher air of superiority and can feel pitiful towards the less fortunate Viscanti:
-"Oh, you poor savage creature. Your heathen ways will be your ruin. Don't worry I sall protect you from yourself.

Three, where you don't care about the races being together as long as they don't mix:
-"I have no problem between Viscantis and common folk, but they just don't have to marry with each other. No sir, this will only bring more problems."

Four, one when you learn how to keep the Viscanti under control by implementing fear within them, or any obstacle possible that prevents them from assuming an identity or group power, while always making the best use out of them:
-"If you do not do what I say, I will hurt you and your people."

There are many ways you can implement racism on rp, just make sure you don't tweak a cities potential power by cutting down the available manpower. And... I am sorry, I am mostly ranting within this post.

So what are you gonna do if tehy don't pay said taxes, or don't follow your rules? You're gonna powerblock them, or oust them from the city. Why deal with the trouble then? Why not just go strait to the point?




That's exactly how Fain has it within Magnagora. Merian and Elfen aren't wanted in the city at all, for any reason.

What's the best way to keep them away...powerblock, strip them of any voice in things, and not let them advance in any way in anything.

So you've just bassically stated that you're against powerblocking etc, and yet you list off a way and reason for thinsg to be RP'd that way.

Anyways, I think we should stop this debate now. As I'm seeing it, neither of us is really going to turn, just keep on back and forth from where we stand.

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't Celest all about compassion? You can't really preach compassion when completely denying some races to your city. Allow them inside, then punish them whenever they do something. Yeah, a complete powerblock would be a good punishment if they didn't follow an order. Plus a fee. You set the difficulties, see who are those who remain and treat them with moderate respect knowing that you can use them. But yes, this "debate" can be endless.

I'm not even gonna get into what Celest is about. That's an entirely messed up matter. Some of it is one way, some another, some a 3rd, etc etc.

People make a lot of assumptions about what I meant compassion as. They also seem to ignore the "against Taint and the tainted" line in there...

For Celest itself, though, look at their Supernals, many of them are somewhat aggressively lined. It's not 'messed up,' it just allows for varying factions. You got those willing to strike out and fight(eg Methrenton), those more interested in fighting defensively(eg Shakiniel), the seekers of knowledge and bringers of justice(eg Japhiel), the pacifists and help-alls(eg Raziela), and those that do a little bit of everything(eg Elohora... notedly she is refered to as a powerful fighter by at least one Supernal, as well as being very loving by others.)

Someone doesn't have to love all indiscriminately or want to kill all on a whim, and to try to categorize people, especially an entire city, in that black-and-white manner is futile.

I didn't mean messed up in that it was bad, I ment it in the nsense that things area big mess. It's very hard to classify the city at all in a single stance, because there are so many verying factions within it. the best I think you can do is say that the city supports and spreads the light.

But then again, not even all of us are necessarily aimed at that either.

Celest and Magnagora are different. Just because Celest can be nonprejudice against races doesn't mean Magnagora has to be. It just happens that Lady Isune is more willing to let the "good" come out in the Viscanti than Lord Fain is to let the Merian or Elfen turn to the Taint.