Um...Yes, it IS a different kind of taint. The taint as it was originally released was the essence of Kethru, filled with the all-consuming, destructive essence of the last and mightiest of the Great Ones, the Soulless that required the Council of Nine Vernal Gods merging into Avechna to banish from the mortal realms. But Kethru's presence left the taint even as the Emperor approached the Balach swamp, an event of massive proportion that changed the fate of the Basin for what we know of history.

I doubt anyone will argue that the taint, infused with the essence of Kethru, was a 'good' thing, but it does not follow that the taint, as it is now, is necessarily bad. The taint now is not the embodiment of this all-consuming soulless one, but a physical manifestation of transformation and progress.

And what is this 'where the whole event took place' appeal? Somehow Magnagora is more to blame because it was chosen by the Emperor as the site for Project Cosmic Hope?

The 'Taint that people are spreading' currently is just a ghost of the Taint of the past and doesn't leave any lasting impression on the land. Hence why I don't care where people put it. Of course, it's not very pretty, and tainting rooms in Serenwilde is somewhat like letting your dog mess all over someone else's lawn.

So the current form of taint is nothing more then refuse. Disgusting but not particularly harmful. Unless of course a Souless one returns to re-imbue it. Then we have the Taint wars all over again. This pretty much returns us to where we were before. Those who sa y 'It's not the same and not a cencern' and those who say 'But what if a Souless one comes back?'. It also doesn't change my view on Brother raven and Mother Night however.

I don't like permanently tainted areas because it makes all the plants look gross. Seriously, pulsing black veins don't belong in grass.

As for the geomantic taint, I don't mind it, as long as I don't have to walk through it in the forests. Sure, it looks weird, but it'll go away soon enough. Same with having to walk through an inch of water. (Semi-related note: remind me to get my shoes muddy before I walk through that crystal-clear water, that's just funny)

I'm... well, Sidharta, is a citizen of Celest, actually, not Serenwilde. And as a citizen of Celest, a few of the things he can't stand are exactly what you mentioned (highlighted in bold for your reading pleasure):

- People accept as a given that Serenwilde "hates" Celest.
- People are unwilling to do anything about this.
- People dismiss Serenwilde as unimportant, hypocritical, weak, stupid.
- People (Celest's more zealous citizens) basically seem to accept whatever they hear without any facts, spin and all. Example: "Serenwilde is allied with Magnagora". Bad Serenwilde! Evil Serenwilde! How are they allied with Magnagora? The treaty to protect the ethereal plane and prevent senseless death? The one that dissolved after an IC month or two?
- People are unable to put themselves in Serenwilde's place at all - "Why would they feel bad about their fae being 'converted' to the Light? The Light is glorious! All hail the Light!"

Sigh.

edit: I guess I forgot to include a point. But... I don't really have one, other than that i'm unhappy with Celest generally and hope another city (Hallifax) soon becomes available. Sidharta will be trying to help the lucidians, pity there's not a "Disciples of the Trill" clan though

I might not look at the situation entirely objectively, but neither do you Sidharta. You act like we should grovel in the dirt before Serenwilde and beg for them to like us again...we made a single mistake by killing fae cause of wrong information, and it was a mistake, but Magnagora slaughtered Fae and defiled your shrines with the corpses day after day after day, killed countless Serenwilders in their own home, in the ethereal, where ever, but all that is so easily forgotten, I'd like to say that I don't understand why, but sadly enough, I do understand why, which I illustrated plenty of times already in previous posts. One of the most sickening things about that is, Serenwilders keep saying "But that were just individuals, not Magnagora itself!"...just makes me gag.

The taint is not some sword waiting for Kethuru to come back and use again. It was a byproduct of His influence. Should He return, He will bring a new Taint with Him. Should Kethuru return, all this bickering over the 'dangers of Magnagora's taint' is a bit like worrying about the kindling when an inferno is already at your doorstep. Whether you see it as good or bad is a philosophical point, and nothing more.

Duh, I never said Celest should grovel at Serenwilde's feet. What I suggested was occasionally looking at the situation from Serenwilde's point of view, in the name of diplomacy - a whacked out and entirely crazy idea, I know. I guess this threat has gotten a bit out of hand, i'm sorry, I need to remember that it's just a game... but Celest doesn't really seem very fun.

Only philosophical?

Hard desert soil pocked with holes.
The corrosiveness of the taint sickens the land. The stars twinkle in the clear night sky.
You see exits leading east, southeast, south, and northwest.

What's that say? The CORROSIVNESS, that's bad.., of the Taint, meaning its of the taint.. like it said.., SICKENS, that's a bad adverb, the land. It says that universally on all lands. It sounds more than philosophical.

If you're looking for a safe place, far from harm and war, where you can snuggle eachother at the crossroads all day, then no, Celest isn't very fun.

No, i'm looking for a place where logging into an online game doesn't seem like a constant chore, moron.

Right, well this moron enjoys every second he's logged on. If it's nothing but a chore, you're obviously in the wrong place, but then again, for some people, no place will ever be good enough. But since I hit some weak spot of yours, I can't be too wrong with my assumption.

So its CELEST who's out tree hugging then? Well, sand hugging anyway. How interesting that they'd care so much about the earth, then cover it in ankle deep water to choke out the plantlife.

Please, if you're going to declare something good or bad, make a stronger case then what adverbs and adjectives are used to describe it.

Ontopic: What he's trying to say is that if we were to have the most powerful of the soulless gods turn up... I think we'd have a fair bit more to worry about then the philisophical implications of the taint and the correct moral relation to it.

Well guys, I really love New Celest and I can honestly say that we are the best city in lusternia, not because of our killing capabilities, nor because of outstanding organization, but because most of us are Rping some really cool characters and I am certainly having a lot more fun here than I ever did in achaea. That said, both IC and OOC, I really think that it is time to have some peace here. I am not too proud to admit that we are losing this conflict/war with magnagora, and now even Serenwilde is looking like they're against us. We need to bite the bullet and admit that continuing this vendetta with magnagora is only going to damage us and what we stand for in both the short and long terms. Does anyone really believe that it is good for celest to have mags invading celestia, our villages, and the city itself every day, regardless of whether we win the battles or not (which we very rarely do)? I just think that we need to realize that we can't really win at the moment, and I for one am not too proud to seek a peace agreement now and look towards the future to maybe give us some hope to stand up against magnagora's bullying. At the same time, we should look to improve our relations with serenwilde, and try to get them into an alliance or at least a friendship that could benefit us down the line in dealing with magnagora. To quote a great song, "all we are saying is give peace a chance!"

In a wildly off-sublect tangent, does anyone know how to change names in the forums. My character Telenar no longer exists and it must be really weird not knowing who I am IC (I am eirene by the way).

edit: Don't mind me.

I guess I shouldn't have expected anything else. Celest is probably quite enjoyable for those who enjoy roleplaying "zealots" - a half-assed job of that to try and please everyone would be far worse. Don't mind me, the needs of the many after all.

I think the main problem is really that Magnagora attracted a ton of hardcore PKers from other MUDs. I knew a handful from Imperian, and they CAN RP, but damn, I don't want to anger them

I'm not saying that the elemental imbalance that floods do isn't something to look at, but she said it was a philosophical thing that Taint was good or bad. That's wrong. And, adjectives to describe how something looks is just that. Seriously, the game says its corrosive, guess what smart-gut? It's corrosive. Now you want more concrete proof Taint is bad? Open your eyes to the destruction it's done.

I didn't mention Celest. It'd be hard for me to refute any implications that said the flooding was a bad thing, so I didn't try to. You don't catch onto such quick understandings, obviously.

Edit:
I just thought about this, but scenario to help you visualize my point with my first post:

Flooded room:
Any sentient being: Aww man, got my socks all wet..
Plants: Too much water is bad.

Tainted room:
Any sentient, non-Tainted?, being: Filmy fog all riding up on my new pants! Covered in MUCK. Cant breathe normally, this is nasty, I want to go home.
Plants: Bad ecosystem! Imbalanced, dislike..

Okay, essentially both are bad. I hope this shed some Light, or that you atleast understood it.

Ya got me there, its been ages since I've had the "sickened by the Earth's taint" affliction.

Also, sorry for being so quick to point the finger at Celest, they do seem to lead the charge on the "argh! Taint bad!" discussion though, and you're so famously from there and all.

Ontopic: What I'm trying to say though is that the taint has lost the malevolent influence it once held. If you wander through it, you'll get a head cold sure, but you won't start flopping around on the ground and mutating either (like you used to). If Kethuru were to turn up again though, his very presence would bath the land in Taint (Big T, mutaty undeath). In that scenario, we've all got better things to do then debate wether or not the current taint (small t, head cold) is morally good or bad.

Besides, equating the ugly and aggressive nature of the taint (and believe me, its both in abundance) with it therefor being evil seems like too much of a leap to me. Then again, this seems like we've fallen into that philisophical discussion we were previously trying to avoid. I shall then declare it a draw, or at least drag it to private messages where the inadiquacy of the text medium will be ours and ours alone to share.

I can't help but wonder if the world would be a better place for everyone if I had just joined Serenwilde :-\\

You know, I think it's incredibly bad form for everyone including the Divine to just come out and say "no, the Taint is not bad, it is just kind of ugly, and doesn't hurt nothin." You're essentially saying Celest is just wrong. Not that you disagree with us, but that, as fact, Celest is fighting against something that doesn't matter at all. If that is the case, what is the point of this game? What is the point of us fighting the Taint at all? I know this is just a forum, but honestly, when a God comes out and actually says the Taint is an essentially harmless pest, it kind of kills the point of the side who's against it. Any argument anywhere now, people can say "Oh, Auseklis says it's okay, and he would know, he's a God, so leave the Taint alone."

Seriously, Celest gets a raw deal. Everywhere you look, people are just brushing off our devotion, saying we're stupid zealots, our cause doesn't matter, we all suck. The Taint isn't a big deal, can't we all just get along? Cave, Celest, nothing you do matters anyway. Well, I happen to love Celest. It's shaping up, I think, to be a fun and interesting place. It isn't just the cliche. We're not a bunch of goody two shoes, nor are we evil bastards. We are people with a cause, and many of us are really putting the effort into showing an unfaltering devotion to that cause. I have nothing but respect for everyone who's stuck with us and not left for easier roads. I'd just like a bit more -outside- respect. Not quite so much absentminded dismissal of everything we stand for would be great.

These forums, like it or not (and god, do I not like it) do have an effect on the game. What people read here, they -know-, and it's almost impossible to not let that have some effect on your character. Some people don't even try. If someone who is presumably in the know here says that the Taint is nothing more than letting your dog do his business on someone's lawn, that's going to stick, and we're going to have to deal with it.

In conclusion, please, give Celest a break. We deserve a bit of it, I'd say.