Can we please do something about regards to PK and orders? If someone defiles, and I go to the shrine... there is one way to stop them, which is kill them. So they come back and resume, guess what happens? If I kill them to stop them damaging a shrine, they can call the Avenger twice (not to mention I'll be pacified). This is fundamentally broken, can we at least make shrines (and the surrounding area depending on shrine size) count as enemy territory? I'd prefer a time limit though, if you defile, you are a target by said Order for X amount of time, so you can't gain suspect or vengeance on those members. Or have it so that defiling a shrine will cause you to lose the suspect you have on any of the members of that said order. So if Person A has me as their suspect, and they defile a shrine of Lisaera, then they would lose that suspect status with me, since defiling Her shrines is a hostile action towards me.

Or maybe they're just waiting for the villages to be free again, then pacify all the main fighters

First chance they think is viable, I'm going to be hit with so many Avatars and pacifications it'll make my Companion's head spin.

Knew they were savin' 'em for something, this change is what it was.

(and of course, they're all onto my scheme now that I announced it. drat! I'm not being randomly attacked anymore)

Also, Yawgmoth and Leah teamed me in Gaudiguch. I was like yeah fine whatever, they'll kill me, they'll both get suspect.

NO SIR, only Leah.

So they just reversed the order, teamed me again, Yawgmoth got the kill, they both stay free and clear.

Can we please, please have some sort of delay on avatars arriving after we enter the realm? It is mind-numbingly depressing to log in and have three Avatars immediately waiting on you.

And Leah can go to hell. *grumble*

And why in the name of Roark is Conglutination an aggressive action?

The idea is definately working. I've had pk careful on since I got unpeaced, I'm not much into that! I was peaced for about a 3/4ths of a day, it seemed like. That's damn long!

I hope it doesn't stack. Rhysus got set down by 3 avatars, thatt'll really stink if it all stacks up for a couple days. Something that really should be taken into account here is all the actions prior that we're getting peaced for now, we didnt think would get us peaced. I got avatar set on me by Erion, he gained vengeance when I heretic'd him. That's all I did, and then I left. I'd still have done it either way, just because I did that one for kicks, but this instance with Rhysus.. I believe he gained these vengeances on himself during the influence season, I know Gol set it off on alot of people for actions in Delport. Do you think we'd have all really go on around killing one another if we were going to get peaced for it now? Even if its temporary to deal with all the actions done when we didn't know we were going to get shafted, can't the peace sentence be lowered drastically?

4 avatars!

You could always eat a bellwort if you get pacified! Heh! Just kidding! So this means that with this new system where the Avenger not only slays you but also pacifies you for a long time will curb violence? Hmm. Okay say it actually works. Wouldnt then the other planes be crawling with PKers? I mean theres nothing to affect them there seeing as Avechna cannot reach those planes. Furthermore it makes PKing a lot harder too. Can't there be just rules similar to Achaea to diminish PK?

The PK rules on Achaea are horrible. They stunt RP growth and conflict in favor of success based on your ability to count PKs and basically be a PK lawyer. Hence the chat room atmosphere, and conflict consisting of a "OMGZ you only had 1 PK on me but you killed me twice! Loser I'm issuing" mentality.

Don't get me wrong, has its place, but it can be overdone.

I can see the current system working, if some tweaks are made and the pacifism times are reduced. I do understand why the changes were made, given all the comments, especially on this forum. It's another example of the gods being really involved and fast to react to problems, which is wonderful.

My only concern is that, by making it too severe too soon, versus making the Avenger more "RP-aware" (for lack of a better term, see previous post), I'm kind of afraid that it might stunt RP conflict in the same way that PK rules have done in Achaea. And Lusternia has so much more of a framework for conflict.

There's a happy medium between utter lack of conflict and overdone bloodshed that is probably very difficult to reach. But it is also undeniable that conflict (up to a point) makes the game interesting for everybody. It provides those not involved with entertainment and food for gossip. It is also an unfortunate fact that those who are willing to be involved in conflict will always be a minority. One side effect is that the majority will have relatively little experience with whichever PK system is currently in place and may base comments/votes more on hearsay instead. A knight will generally know the effects of his skills better than any mage, no matter how many times the mage has fought him.

I like the idea of the Avenger. And I like the idea of Prime being fairly safe from PK. So the idea is for us to keep PK mainly to the other planes?
I really can't see that happening. The elemental planes are viscously guarded, you'd be able to get help in an instant there, and the fight would be all over.
Astral is too tough for me, so I havn't explored it. I'm fairly sure it's big enough, but it's basically a bashing ground for the high levellers now.
Things might get better as Air and Fire gets opened, but I still say we ought to have some kind of battlegrounds, where we're supposed to keep PK.
And because of the fact that most PK takes place in the villages we would need to change the PK rules for them. Maybe it's not making them extensions of the cities, the suspect lists still piles up.

If pk would be banned or stopped on Prime, there won't be any pk left in Lusternia at all.

If PK were banned in prime, the outer planes would turn into runescape's wilderness. Walk into them, someone kills you.

I'm not sure if you guys have been paying attention. But theres lots to be done on the outer planes that just beg for conflict. For some reason people feel theres more point in raiding a city then raiding the plane the city relies on. The city is just chunks of rock where people do business, the planes is where the conflict lies.

You can't raze down walls of a city, you can suck a city dry of power from the planes.

I think that is exactly the point. They don't want heavy PK on the Prime, but up upon the other planes.

And as was pointed out, the PK system for Achaea is just bad. It forces people to be lawyers on PK. Then there are also loads of issues, and it starts comming down to what god deals with the issues, and how much they like your character.




I think a lot of people miss that. The cities are extensions of the planes they are tied too.

What I don't get, is why so many people seem to thik RP requires PK to be there? Big whoop, PK! Yea, that's great RP there now isn't it. "I hate you, you die!" or how about, "Uh, how dare you think such a thing as that, I'm insulted, now you die!" Honestly, excessive PK, and basing everything around that, in my head leads to horrible RP, and starts things like "Oh man, I PWND you!"

Honestly, there are other ways to go around this stuff. Work it into ecconomics, and politics. Work fighting into duels in the areana or upon other planes. I knwo there will always be PK, and that is perfectly fine. But not everythgin needs to center itself around that.

Yeah, I used any vengances I got as soon as I got em. I was level 20ish, and was summoned and died alot. Now, I won't use vengances. Having an avatar kill someone once for them killing me/attacking twice? Fine, but getting someone pacified for killing me? That just screws them over, and they can't do anything. I won't be using avenger simply because it now makes playing not fun for the one hit by it, whereas before it was just one death.

I hear this all the time.
Here's the thing. I'm here for the PK. And I think many people are. It's a relly well thought-out system. It's fascinating that you can be good at it, without making systems, without buying lots of credits, just by being on top of things and keeping a cool head and knowing what the other guilds can do.

If I want to roleplay, I'll go roleplay with my group, in real life. That's not to say I don't roleplay on Lusternia, or enjoy it. I do, and I get down with all the other fun things Lusternia has to offer, like politics and economics and quests and such.

But I get a rush from fighting other players. It's a thrill. And sure, I'm not particularly good at it. Lusternia's the first IRE mud I've given a serious try.

Hopefully that doesn't make me a bad player. And I do hope there are other people who see "all that other stuff" as fun side shows at the carnival of player vs. player fighting.

Exactly.

I would hate to see that. What is the point of going to all those fun other attractions, if you are just there to kill other people.

I see it more as that it should be a big carnival(continuing in your example) of RP, with many differing aspects to it. This attraction of economics is one thing, that attraction of politics ia another, over there are the attractions on PvP, and over here are the attractions of whatever, etc. Each of the areass has their place, but the crnival isn't about just one of them, but about them all. You won't see the rest of the carnival if all you are there for is PvP. Likewise, you won't see much of PvP, if you only care about city politics. And so on with each differing part of the game.

Each thing has its place, but the world should not be built directly on PvP.

I think the way Avenger is set up now is great. If you are worried about being pacified, turn PK CAREFUL on like you've been told. It's not that hard to do your Champion duties with it on.

Speaking for myself, before we opened I actually envisioned we'd have more raids on planes than on cities for this very reason...