I always did have the feeling no one was reading what I was saying.

Now it is confirmed.

I simply explained my emotional reaction to what is a forum zerg. The nature of the conversation speaks to that, easily. Almost all of it has been directed towards Hallifax, with the Gaudiguch equivalent (who naturally should have a general equivalence of opinion to Halli players on the topic, one way or another) is mentioned in passing, or with a small post here and there.

I don't feel Halli is out to get me, but I do see a lot of similarities to the forum parade that wound up with the horrendous pyro/aero changes. Which is neither here nor there on this specific issue, apart from that I'm certain I'm not the only one without a lot of good will left for an org that benefits from the current mechanical landscape as much as hallifax does.

And six people is a good deal more than what the other orgs are showing up with!

I know that the constructs aren't supposed to be exact copies of each other, so let's compare the perceived intent behind the effects. Things that are usually seen included as racial advantages will just be noted as 'racial plus' for ease of comparison. I'm only listing Serenwilde and Hallifax right now, because that's what's been mentioned so far.

Serenwile:

Hallifax:


Without talking about whether the improved/added abilities are useful or not, it certainly looks to me like Serenwilde has the better deal. My suggestions for balancing this, without completely changing the nature of the constructs:

Move at least one thing from the Moon Altar to the Standing Stone. The only one that might make sense is the stat boost, which may need to be changed to a different stat to make flavor sense, or maybe the regeneration, which again, could be changed to static, instead of fluctuating, to make flavor sense.
Make the cloud help people who can already fly.
Take out the once per day condition for TIMECHANT QUICKENING, or change it to a different, always present, racial plus.
Maybe replace SPREAD CLOUDS with the TWIRL STAFF effect, minus the DMP. Basically, that lightning that tickles people when they attack us.
If you don't like the above, remove the once per day condition, and give it a higher mana cost OR make it last much longer, and make it gustable.

I don't like having once per day limitations if no one else (besides Gaudiguch, we're kinda in the same boat, construct wise) does. I can, however, see how it might be needed in some situations. Please point out where I've erred, since I'm sure I have. I'm obviously a bit biased, but I'm trying to be objective. It's a little disheartening to realize that as an Aeromancer, I get nothing out of one of the city-wide constructs, other than a cute little cloud that I'll probably talk to all the time (I the RP of having this cloud!), other than negligible damage reduction against my own damage type.

@rainydays:

You're actually quite wrong about that - we keep using Hallifax as an example because its -our- construct and it comes naturally to use it as an example.

The reason we keep mentioning Gaudiguch at all is because we recognize that yours isn't good either and we don't want you to be forgotten about.

Because 1 level of sip is inheirtantly more valuable than a level of resistance of any kind. 1 level of resistance shaves of 10% of one type of damage. It has a use in certain situations, but a level of resistance does you no good if you are not being attacked by that type of damage.

However, a sip bonus applies its effect everywhere. No matter what kind of damage you take, or if it afflicts health, mana or ego, does the sip bonus help in some way.

That was kind of fun, should I do Glomdoring and Gaudiguch too?

I don't remember it requiring flight when I did it. Hrm...
(did all the Halli collegium quest a bit after they were released)
(tried the Gaudi ones, got no help in figuring out what the he'll to do )

@Lilia
Celest also has the once a day limitation on the phial given by the Font when sipping, that afflicts with three different things, never seen more than three effects, on damage two of which are made useless somewhat by an Aqua demesne, and only last a minute.

First, think of all the things/ways we can get a sip bonus. You either have to be faeling/tae'dae/whatever, which has its...quirks, or you have to belong to a commune and take alchemy for the philosopher stone. There's no sip bonus artie, but if there were, it'd be worth at least 300 cr+. Transing alchemy equates to the same, and being faeling has its ups and downs. Generally, what I'm trying to say here is that having a sip bonus entails having to pay quite a sum in order to get the benefits and sometimes, it comes with some pretty hefty downsides. The construct costs 300 marble and 50k (at least ours did), which is positively chump change for any org. In short, they get a sip bonus for what pretty much amounts to nothing.

Now, on top of that, a sip bonus just helps in everything. Insert math about how over time, 7% more sip adds up here. It applies to both pvp and pve as well. Consider the other effects of the constructs. Seren has a slight chance for the foal to protect them, Glom has slight chance for the crow to attack things, Celest has mana regen which is capped, Halli and Gaudi have their own underwhelming effects. In comparison, what Mag has goes far and beyond what appears to be the intent of the admin: to have constructs that are neat in their own way, but should not be viewed as must haves. The only effect which seems to even come to close is Celest's, and having better mana regen is much, much more niche than a better sip and you don't actually die when you run out of mana.

My short term memory is terrible. ._.

The collegium quests don't; it's the Cosmic plane empowerment quest which does.

Indeed, quite naturally in fact! It doesn't take an active conspiracy to have a detrimental effect, just a tilted number of people, hence the zerg, hence the danger of interpreting the scale of commentary regarding one aspect as having any particular meaning. It sets a poor tone, in my opinion. Though, I do feel the necessity of saying each time I bring this up, "this doesn't have any actual bearing on the argument itself".

I'm mostly concerned that we verge on "loud = right" scenarios, which, to me, feels backed up by what has happened in the past. Just having this conversation, however tertiary, hopefully serves as a reminder to be cautious of just that.

My only real concern mechanically is that, if the constructs are revised, I'm concerned with, "this sucks, instead we need . No other suggestions? Ok, we'll go with that."

Deschain, Akui is Celestian.

Consider it a proof of you being balanced enough in your evaluations to not be considered Hallifaxian enough... or something.

Transing alchemy is a % bonus outside of sip levels, and is markedly larger than the construct bonus. I also note that Illuminati also have a sip bonus, for the sake of the list. As well, sip bonus does cap at lvl 3 (I remember there was a question regarding this at some point in the thread).

No you!
Come back.

How could I forget about that, I used to live in Celest! Thinking on it more, maybe TIMECHANT QUICKENING is okay, but SPREAD CLOUDS still needs more umph.

Oh, nice to know.

What I'd like to know is if the construct sip bonus is actually 7%, i.e., 1 level of sip bonus or if it's lower. Either way, a sip bonus is just so much more useful than niche abilities like fire resistance, mana regen, more carrion, better stag stuff, and electric resistance. Can we get some sort of equalization there.

On a more light-hearted note, don't you think Nimbus sounds much more Hallifaxian? I want a flying Nimbus. Not a Puff of Logic.

..It is a cloud. They're not going to change the nature of the constructs. Stop trying to.

Then people will think it's a Nimbus 2000.