Yes, yes, I know, sorry. I'll start on the bards and see if I can spank and alter one of the guilds to be a little more artsy.

I guess I am just not very artistic. Where's Isune when you need her?

People say this and I'm always kind of baffled. Guardian driving is the only privilege Guild Protectors have, code-wise. The lack of desire to use it as it currently can function (guardian drivers) and instead using it as a 'combatant flag' so to speak (with no privileges other than driving guardians they likely don't need) just confuses me, really.

Given they're technically denizens, they can't be afflicted, targetted by area-wide attacks, and are only damageable by bashing attacks. They can shield, break shields, web and attack - and I believe Estarra said if they seemed like something people were actually interested in using, we'd look into adding more abilities into their routines.

CLANHELP SOC

Did get curious and try using it earlier, but I ran into some technical difficulties.

Otherwise, I'm planning to quickly add another 200 power and use it like an ent, because (geeze) they're awesome. o.o

Protectors get:
1) Increased power draws.
2) The ability to DEFEND people in their organization whether allied or not.

(With the second being the main reason, the first is player-driven but still useful nonetheless)

Guardians cost:
200 power.

There's the reasoning for protectors being a combatant flag and guardians not being used, really.

I guess it's to do with the fact that you have to be a protector to become a secretary. Even without any special privs it kinda comes off like putting just anyone who shows an interest in teaching novices in an undersec position.

Plus it does come off as a position of authority and I think, in the Hartstone at least, it lets you pull rank over most of the guild. If it wasn't a coded stepping stone to security it might be different, but it's not that difficult to see implications of handing the position out for this.

I've kind of always seen the protector role as the people who are security-in-training/waiting. These are the people that should either be practising their skill in combat, or have proven their abilities and are now marked for potential promotion to security. Either way they should be heading into combat wielding their own powers rather than well... novice abilities.

As it stands the only way that we might see them in use is if we assigned all the lowbies who showed some interest in defense to guild protector, which would most likely just cause bloating on the guild help scrolls and again, create a false impression that these people are guild officials when really they are most likely only in this position so they can help out in raids. Sorry if that is offensive to anyone, I just think that the most likely outcome is going to be that there may be 10 or more people wandering around with the protector title for each guild just so they can help out in a raid.

If you keep the privilege restricted to guild protector/security but allow them a command(requiring the target to agree of course) to let a member of their org control the guardian. This would give some purpose and responsibility to the post while also allowing the people that the guardians were designed for access to them.

Wow. Bit testy, aren't we?

I'm just saying Trillilial isn't all that represented in the guilds atm. I didn't say there was anything wrong with that, just that it wasn't for me.

It's a bit weird, I guess. But maybe the monks will be all artsy and balance it out in combination with the bards.

Really, it'd be fine if there were 2 forms of Aeromancy--Demesne and Non-Demesne flavors. Because I was a demesne-user back when orgs would demand constant melds 24/7, and after several 10+ hour holds, I refuse to ever play a demesne class again, heh.

According to some other things I've read on the forums, mages can be effective with just psionics. You can definitely play a support role if you don't want to be the melder.

But I still have to put tons of lessons into the skill just to get staff. And if I get that high, someone is going to expect me to meld. And at that point I will have a nervous breakdown.

Ah, the joys of internet and lack of intonation, I was merely taking the piss with myself (as usual) and not so much reacting testy. Your objection is valid though, the guilds currently there are very sciency, I honestly didn't realise this that much at first (having a purely scientific background personally, people tend to focus on those things they are most comfortable with) but it's been pointed out to me. I'm afraid the city won't have a truly art guild until the bards come out (which I am doing some preliminary work on because I have a vacation right now which will probably be the last for quite some time, so it's more that now is my chance than that we're actively working on them atm) but I am looking into providing the aeromancers with some artistic background, even though you mentioned that that isn't for you personally. The institute lends itself a bit less to art, considering they're built entirely around the scientific method. That isn't to say that an artist couldn't do well in there however, life is what you make of it after all, and scientists are currently heavily underrepresented in hallifax.

However, that shouldn't necessarily be a turn off: we currently have no active playwrights in the city and only very few people write literary books. There's a whole niche waiting to be filled! Consistent effort is bound to be rewarded, probably in guild as well: most of the guildmasters and administrators are reasonably liberal and willing to consider alternatives to the usual advancement paths. And of course, families are completely beyond guilds and can be joined regardless of membership.

My, that turned into quite a rant. All I am trying to say really is not to discard the options before you've tried them. I'd personally love to see a few more dedicated artists in the city.

I think one of my things is that Gaudi felt a bit more.. liberal. And I mean, obviously it is, but what I mean is that I felt like, in Gaudi, I could write something about opposed orgs and not be hassled for it. Whereas if I were in Mag, for instance, and wrote something with a Celestian hero, that might not go over so well. And it seemed like it might be similar with Hallifax--if I wrote something that didn't "fit" with the cities overall style and hard-line edge, it might not be totally pleasant.

But I'll definitely think about Hallifax.

I think... Aloysha already started talking about having aeromancers permameld rockholm. It's just an expectation that people have.

What Elostian is saying is that we need Isune/another more artistic divine to balance things out a bit.

Ok, well, maybe I won't be reconsidering.

I don't mean to sound patronising with what I am about to say, it is kindly meant: it seems though that most of your current opinions are based on impressions: 'hallifax seems like' 'Celest would be' 'Magnagora is probably'. You will not actually know until you try these things for yourself and interact with the people involved. Again, an example from Hallifax (Which may get a bit old, but I live there and due to the affinity system, I really don't know anyon from other cities!) I would find it difficult to believe that the Hallifax librarian would ban books on account of having a hero from another city. In fact, if she does, let me know, she's in my order after all, I might need to step on her.

and art monks

No, I didn't mean Hallifax would ban books for having a hero from another city. I just meant that they seem a bit "fit in or else", given that they're a "Collective" and all. I mean, people aren't allowed to speak out in Hallifax, right? Lower Castes just have to complain in private? So, writing something that wasn't flattering to the Collective might get a Sentinel knocking on my door.

And I know lots of what I'm basing it on is impressions, but I don't have much else to go on in terms of Hallifax--none of the guilds particularly interest me, so I haven't made an alt there. But I'm more than willing to be enlightened about how my impressions are wrong.

Agreed, I would get nervous if Casilu was knocking on my door with a gauntletted steel fist as well. On the other hand though, what you just said is a given: if you live in celest and write a book 'I like the demon lords', you're not going to be very popular either.

As for impressions, try and see. It's highly individual of course, but (I like to think that) hallifax really is the more logical choice if you enjoy writing, designing and creating. I make an effort to rain cityfavours on those that make an active effort to be scholarly or artsy.