Conversely with bottles you can sanctify 15 rooms quickly as well.

It works both ways and therefore creates no imbalance.

If a force has enough people to defile without you stopping them they will do so. Bottles or no bottles.

Okay, that's a reasonable argument. Maybe it'll limit the griefing to once a day, since bottles can only be stored for a day.

EDIT: I still think bottles should be worth more than 2k though. That's artificially low.

that is why you take your gold from your bashing trips and buy esteem bottles! problem solved

You can sanctify fast, sure, but if it's already gone due to defiling speed then how fast you can sanctify it doesn't matter as you would still have to reraise it.

If I understand Anisu and Shiri's arugment correctly, the problem isn't availability of esteem. The issue is the rate of sanctifying and desanctifying. By the time the defenders reach the shrine...there could possibly be nothing left to defend.

And again, if you can't stop the defiling, it doesn't matter what is used it will be defiled.

People who defile, don't show up with 1 corpse. They show up with a team of people laden down with corpses and have another team gathering more.

Have you never been involved in order warfare? I mean serious order warfare?

If you can't stop the defiling it doesn't matter if you have bottles or not, cause you can't stop it anyways. If you can stop the defiling it again doesn't matter because you have the ability to stop it and fix it.

I can get 2-3 bottles in an hour, an influencer also does not use as many herbs as someone that bashes, does not need greatrobes or fullplate, (in case of knights) does not need an expensive weapon set, only needs 1-2 enchantments. And most importantly, you can elect to use charity if you want to. Esteem was made to solve the problem of not being able to offer, not to compensate for gold (by the way you can still sell imbued items to players, they just have to use it faster)



Which means you can not really have a fair fight and dust a shrine, because a home team always has the advantage over the away team. That is why most shrine dustings now happen either in a blitzkrieg or when defenders are away and you greatly outnumber your enemy.

So yes there is an imbalance because status quo in shrine battles is winning for the home team.

I suggest you get some order war experience before making comments. I have been dusting shrines since the early days of Achaea. Dusting is always a blitzkreig or when defenders are away.

You make sure you have the ability to do it and then you go for it. It isn't supposed to be easy for the defilers.

I certainly wouldn't calibrate the standard to a faeling demigoddess.

Esteem was already made to be harder to defile/sanctify with. It is fine as is.

Not my fault that you can't influence worms too. You're just nitpicking. My point still stands. Influencing gives 1.5X the experience of killing it. Other things that result from you killing it, like another killable mob (worth even more xp than the original mob), doesn't count.

Actually it does when comparing how much you can get influencing compared to bashing.

First not everything is influencable, but everything is bashable.

Second some things are better to bash than influence.

Edit:: In other words if you are going to paint a picture. Paint the whole picture.

Saying you get 1.5* the experience is not the whole picture.

Saying you get 1.5* the experience from 1/3rd the mobs is.

Heh and people wonder why order conflict is utterly boring. There is neither fun nor cunning in defiling a shrine when they have nobody to defend.

BTW I have participated in quite a few shrine battles, and several times cleared the basin from all shrines of a certain god except those protected by guards. And I have participated in both a blitz and a fighting for every inch types of defiling. The latter is immensely more fun for both sides. But hey if you have to refer to Achaea I am just going to assume your experience in lusternia is limited to looking from afar.

I suggested this in the other thread, I'd suggest it again with more elaboration. There are mobs that can be bashed and influenced, bashed but not influenced, but none that can be influenced but not bashed. Hence, I suggest an area with mobs that can only be influenced, and cannot be killed. Perhaps some ephemeral spirits, or lesser Voices, which are not physically tied to this world, and thus cannot be harmed.


Because, it'll be like using your health to attack.

Now, personally, I'm fine with the idea of making mobs question back regardless of how fast you influence. After all, don't you do that while debating? However, other changes would have to be implemented like Xenthos' suggestion to remove ego cost from influence attacks, or Anisu's suggestion to open high level influencing areas. Simply opening mobs to counter as it is now would merely drive more people away from influencing. After all, isn't influencing one of the major feature of Lusternia?

I'm not saying you get 1.5X as much xp while you influence than you bash. Yes, in 99% of cases, bashing is better. I actually bashed to demigod, rather than influencing, so I do know which is better overall.

I'm saying that influencing a mob gives 1.5X as much xp as if you had killed it. My statement was exactly to "paint the whole picture" for everyone, who apparently were until the assumption that had bashing been 1.1X faster than influencing, bashing would have been more efficient, which is not actually the case.

Again, don't nitpick.

Influencing is not meaned to be a viable alternative for bashing (or so an admin told me)

What? I came and loved Lusternia because it had an alternative form of gaining experience aside from bashing.

Influencing has been a viable alternative to bashing for a very long time. It is the main reason people begged and pleaded for more areas to influence. Because Lusternia has more to offer than just bashing and not everyone wants to bash, but everyone should have the chance to get to demigod. Be it through bashing or through influencing.

The only way you're gonna get demi influencing is if you have absolutely no life, or do it over the course of forever. High-tier influencing isn't really feasible because the returns start diminishing at an extravagant rate. I know for a fact that if I truly bucked up, and started bashing to my potential, I would level a lot faster than if I continued influencing, and that's as a changeling with a blessing, bardic presence, and everything else. They need to add way harder influencing mobs, and then just us the chance to make criticals "You make a WORLD-SHATTERINGLY GOOD POINT!"