Nudes and the Fine Arts

by Unknown

Back to The Real World.

Arix2009-02-11 05:46:50
I probably wouldn't be drawing nudes anyway, most of my drawings are random doodles, or character sketches for tabletop RPG's that I make so that if someone asks what my dude looks like, I can just point to the picture. Also, I can't draw hands or clothes very well. Regarding those guys, they probably only took that class for the naked women, and that's why they got mad at having to put up with naked guys for a bit. I probably wouldn't be comfortable with drawing nudes, because i'd be too paranoid about doing a crappy job. Photography, maybe, but not drawing. Also, as has been pointed out, sexism works both ways, so I tend to ignore people who make broad statements like 'all men are pigs/immature/whatever'. It sounds just as stupid coming from women, and making dumb comments like that while passing it off as feminism is an insult to real feminists who aren't sexist whackjobs.
Desitrus2009-02-11 09:19:04
I like Dane Cook's dad on "My Best Friend's Girl." He really had a sensitive side for women. Plus you can't go wrong with a Baldwin.
Meliana2009-02-11 15:54:49
QUOTE (Eventru @ Feb 7 2009, 09:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
My freshman year of college, I had a professor by the name of Lovejoy, and she taught european civilization. She was the sort of woman who, if you missed a day of class, she would simply make a note in her book and, at the end of the semester, automatically fail you, never saying a word.

One day she was lecturing on the nature of sexuality in classical greece, such as the Athenian pederasty and the Spartan military lovers, and the Sacred Band of Thebes.

We had one girl who became very upset at this, and the notion that Alexander the Great was a homosexual, and said something - Professor Lovejoy, not being one to be interrupted, ignored her completely, and kept speaking. The girl, again, spoke up a few minutes later. A few of us gave her nasty looks, and she subsided. When the professor spoke about the Sacred Band of Thebes and said that Phillip of Macedonia proclaimed over the battlefield, 'Let any man perish the thought that these men did anything unseemly'. She made some remark about religion and homosexuality, and Professor Lovejoy closed her book, and dismissed the class for the day.

The next week, I was sitting in the front row (having been five minutes early, which was hideously late for the average student, considering the cost of being 5 minutes late was a high risk of failing the class). Lovejoy walked in, walked over to the girl, and asked to speak with her in the hall. The girl acquiesced, and they walked to the door. The professor opened the door for the girl, who walked out, and spun around wide-eyed when Lovejoy slammed the door behind her, and locked it. She promptly walked over to the girl's desk, grabbed her books and bag, and dropped it out the window, after ensuring the girl did not have a laptop with her.

The professor turned around, walked up to her lectern, smiled, and asked if anyone wished to leave the class as well.

It promptly brought an end to that behaviour.

Anyways. My point is, however. Making a very brutal example of one of them is a very sufficient method of dealing with people their age.



I had a similar experience in a developmental psychology class. At the beginnng of the semester our Professor handed out a detailed curriculum for what we'd be doing week by week and there were two weeks that covered Sexuality. Now I live in Alabama which of course is part of the Bible Belt so I was wondering how it would go over and it played out pretty badly. There was an older guy mid 30's taking the class with us and on the first day of the chapter on Sexuality he had a bible open in the hall outside of the class. Immediately I knew stuff was about to hit the fan. We get in the class and the Professor starts the chapter only to be interrupted by the older man spouting quotes of Bible passages. Instead of telling the man "You knew this was part of the curriculum if you couldn't deal with it you shouldn't be taking this class" He assured him that he was a Christian and attended church every Wed. and Sunday and this was something that had to be teached. The older guy continued to mutter and make a show of shaking his head to things the Professor said flipping through the bible and raising his hand to interject, which the Professor ignored and made the man even angrier. He did the same thing each day until we moved on to another subject. Suffice it to say the class was ruined for me.
Noola2009-02-11 15:58:08
QUOTE (Meliana @ Feb 11 2009, 09:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I had a similar experience in a developmental psychology class. At the beginnng of the semester our Professor handed out a detailed curriculum for what we'd be doing week by week and there were two weeks that covered Sexuality. Now I live in Alabama which of course is part of the Bible Belt so I was wondering how it would go over and it played out pretty badly. There was an older guy mid 30's taking the class with us and on the first day of the chapter on Sexuality he had a bible open in the hall outside of the class. Immediately I knew stuff was about to hit the fan. We get in the class and the Professor starts the chapter only to be interrupted by the older man spouting quotes of Bible passages. Instead of telling the man "You knew this was part of the curriculum if you couldn't deal with it you shouldn't be taking this class" He assured him that he was a Christian and attended church every Wed. and Sunday and this was something that had to be teached. The older guy continued to mutter and make a show of shaking his head to things the Professor said flipping through the bible and raising his hand to interject, which the Professor ignored and made the man even angrier. He did the same thing each day until we moved on to another subject. Suffice it to say the class was ruined for me.


That professor should have kicked Ol' Bible Thumper Joe out of class. That type of dude is the one giving the whole Christian religion a bad name.
Fania2009-02-11 17:12:16
QUOTE (Caerulo @ Feb 10 2009, 07:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm merely curious, what does this has to do with the boys ogling the female models and having homophobic reactions? Perhaps I could understand if you said that Christians have strong anti-gay sentiments, and that resulted in the homophobic reactions (which I don't agree, but I will be able to understand why you feel that way). But why does what you call the Christian concept of 'sex is bad' have to do with this?
I'm a Christian, so perhaps I'm inherently biased towards Christianity. But this seems a little strange to be brought up here.


I did not say that the Chirstians had a concept of "sex is bad" on the whole. I said that there were people who decided on behalf of every one in the United State, that sex was bad. The only thing it has to do with Christians is that these people did it under the guise of Christianity. There are some Christians that back this up, and others that don't. My statement wasn't meant as "Christians are destroying art so they are evil". I'm pointing out that we need to watch more closely to what our politicians and the media are doing, especially when it comes to religion. Often they get things wrong. They go with the flow of a small and loud group of people. They twist words and make good things evil. If you like the way they do things now, then I guess it's not a problem for you. I personally don't like the fact that they can do awful things, put God in the mix, and use it for justification. I would think that any Christian would find that offensive.
Unknown2009-02-12 04:16:02
QUOTE (Fania @ Feb 12 2009, 01:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I did not say that the Chirstians had a concept of "sex is bad" on the whole. I said that there were people who decided on behalf of every one in the United State, that sex was bad. The only thing it has to do with Christians is that these people did it under the guise of Christianity. There are some Christians that back this up, and others that don't. My statement wasn't meant as "Christians are destroying art so they are evil". I'm pointing out that we need to watch more closely to what our politicians and the media are doing, especially when it comes to religion. Often they get things wrong. They go with the flow of a small and loud group of people. They twist words and make good things evil. If you like the way they do things now, then I guess it's not a problem for you. I personally don't like the fact that they can do awful things, put God in the mix, and use it for justification. I would think that any Christian would find that offensive.

I agree with you that people using God or Christianity as their front is really giving us Christians a bad name. However, I was just merely curious as I didn't see the link between Christianity, or 'sex is bad' and the reactions Marina's students had. I'd say its more of a American culture thing, rather than Christian culture.

@Meliana I totally agree with Noola.
Tervic2009-02-12 06:37:28
QUOTE (Dugan Diluculo @ Feb 10 2009, 07:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Well, their actions were absolutely horrible and I feel sorry if the models heard the comments that they were making. I think I would just have told the main instigators to leave and give them a zero for the day. I would send the main teacher an email of the behaivor and what was said. Probably some were just going along with the crowd, but that still does not make it right. And I would not have an issue drawing a naked man or woman (though I can't draw a straight line to save my life).


Bodies aren't straight lines, so don't let that discourage you! I couldn't draw worth spit approximately.... six weeks ago. I'm enrolled in a drawing class and it's awesome.

Also, whoever came up with the thought that sex is bad is a moron... how do they expect to propagate the human race without procreation?

I hate Bible thumpers. They're not reading what they're thumping. EDIT: Or rather, they pick and choose what they want to thump. Or are just jerks. Because Jigan is picky. Rawrgh.
Daganev2009-02-12 08:54:07
too much sex is bad for the farmer work ethic. That's why.

That is, you need to be able to wake up early to get the farm running, but if you arn't just working on necessary procreation it would ruin your "work ethic"

edit: Or maybe it was the fact that the farmer work ethic didn't allow for much copulating, and so they tried to punish the nobility by saying how bad it was to have time in your day for such activities.
Unknown2009-02-12 09:15:36
I dunno, but aren't farmers supposed to have loads of children? Don't they consider children as 'free labour'?
Shiri2009-02-12 09:27:20
Um, yeah, that's the exact opposite of how it's always worked and still does work, like Caerulo said. My dad's the 2nd of 5 children of a farmer and he was hardly an unusual example in this region. We had the fact that farmers tended to have lots of children drilled into our heads all through geography learning about 3rd-world countries too.

My semi-educated guess would be that the sex deal came from the same fun-banning Puritans as migrated to New England in the 1600s or whatever.
Noola2009-02-12 10:20:53
Actually, farmers are traditionally all about having lots of kids. For a couple of reasons. One reason is, that for poor farmers, high childhood mortality means that having lots of kids ensures that a few of them survive to adulthood. But the main reason is that for the farmer, those kids generally become a little workforce that they don't have to pay wages to. laugh.gif It's one reason why farmer kids have always been more likely to drop out of school. My Grandfather on my mom's side was one of 16 kid (I think that's right, I'm not 100%, but I know it was a crazy bunch like that cause I remember being amazed. laugh.gif ) and as soon as he finished the 8th grade, he dropped out of school to help work the farm.

But yeah, the Puritans are the culprits, I think, when it comes to the prudishness of the US. laugh.gif
Unknown2009-02-12 10:40:16
US is prudish? Hollywood, MTV, Playboy ... not American I guess.
Doman2009-02-12 10:41:44
Show a female nipple on daytime TV. I DARE YOU!
Shiri2009-02-12 10:44:48
QUOTE (Caerulo @ Feb 12 2009, 10:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
US is prudish? Hollywood, MTV, Playboy ... not American I guess.

Well, like a lot of sociological things it's pretty nuanced. As slutty as some American media figures can get their censorship of sexuality is sometimes considered (important two words there) stricter than other modern countries, partly because of their high and noisy crazy christian demographic compared to, say, most of Western Europe. Whether reality actually bears that out is another matter.
Unknown2009-02-12 10:46:13
Do that in China, or Singapore or Malaysia or any other conservative country. I double-dare you.
Noola2009-02-12 13:44:00
QUOTE (Caerulo @ Feb 12 2009, 04:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Do that in China, or Singapore or Malaysia or any other conservative country. I double-dare you.



Just because someone might be more prudish, doesn't make us not prudish. laugh.gif

Unknown2009-02-12 14:19:38
QUOTE (Noola @ Feb 12 2009, 05:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Actually, farmers are traditionally all about having lots of kids. For a couple of reasons. One reason is, that for poor farmers, high childhood mortality means that having lots of kids ensures that a few of them survive to adulthood. But the main reason is that for the farmer, those kids generally become a little workforce that they don't have to pay wages to.


I remember hearing one time that, "a child in the country is an asset, while a child in the city is a liability." Realized what a simple truth it was as well.
Xavius2009-02-12 15:53:37
QUOTE (Caerulo @ Feb 12 2009, 04:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Do that in China, or Singapore or Malaysia or any other conservative country. I double-dare you.

It'd go over better than it would here (which is not to say it would go over well). Only in areas with predominantly Abrahamic monotheistic populations does conservatism work out to anti-sexuality. This goes way back further than the Puritans.

And yes, just because the above posters lack the cojones to stand by what they see so very clearly: the Christian establishment is anti-sexuality. This is not the same as anti-sex, because sex is obviously necessary, but they are against all expressions of sexual behavior. Sex is reserved for marriage, and married sex shall not partake of the perversions of the pagan world. The Christian establishment, enjoying at least a nominal majority, reaches its grimy little hands out and does its damnedest to remove Enlightenment values from the US and Europe, like abstinence-based sex ed programs that have been proven time and time again to do more harm than good, bans on legal recognition of homosexuality, and sundry other nonsense oriented towards limiting sexual expression.

(Imma split this thread yet, Shiri!)
Noola2009-02-12 16:13:05
I've never understood why some folks seem to keep thinking that abstinence-based sex ed works so well. For one thing, it's human nature to go against a prohibition. This is true for something as unexciting (relatively) as books, where readership of a book skyrockets after its been banned, of course it's true for sex as well! Then, you add teenagers to the mix with their act now, think later mentality and all those crazy hormones, of course kids are going to try sex.

Only since they've only been taught to not have sex, they mess around and get pregnant or STDs or what have you.

I think good sex education programs should cover how to have sex safely, the dangers of not being safe when you have sex and the mechanics of sex and have less focus on making sex sound forbidden. Cause making it seem forbidden just makes it all that much more appealing to teens.

If you have a swimming pool and a small child, you have to teach that child to swim. Because it doesn't matter if you tell her not to go near the pool and it doesn't matter if you put a fence around it, that kid is going to find a way to get in the water and if she can't swim, she's gonna drown. Same thing with sex.
Unknown2009-02-12 16:26:04
Teaching them about STDs, vividly, (especially the statistics involving Herpes, I mean, wow) would scare the smart ones into abstinence or using protection. Shame that the ones that are dumb enough to still go through with it unprotected end up being the ones that spawn and progress the species.

Teaching only abstinence will just have the effect Noola describes. So they are even more intrigued and still ignorant of how to do it safely. Repression heightens the desire, not alleviates it (catholic-school-girl-effect or whatever).