And now, time for me to sleep. Good night, even though I know it's the day for most of you.

Guys, I really don't understand why you're all bandwagoning on Daganev when we can learn just as much about him from lynching Harkux. As I explained before, if we lynch Harkux, we can find out if he's scum or town, and in turn, receive a BIG hint as to whether Daganev is scum or town, seeing as how Daganev went after him. AND we can do all this without giving the scum yet another roleclaim to work with. If we keep bandwagoning Daganev, what happens? He roleclaims and gives the scum more info on Day 1? Or he gets lynched and the town possibly loses one of their most talented players? And we get no further information on Harkux, who is a major suspect?

Think about the long-term repercussions, people.

A very good breakdown analysis of Daganev's chronology was given several pages back. I suggest reading that. If Daganev is as great a player as people are claiming, I doubt he'd make random timing jumps and slips as his quoted, timestamped posts show him to do. He manipulated Harkux into role-revealing, and then later used the thin claim of a "trap" to cover for this and attempt to manipulate townies into a lynch.

Tekora's logic as to why we should lynch Harkux is also quite fallable. If Harkux is innocent, Daganev can merely claim the numbers defence - "there are so many more Town than Scum! It was an honest mistake!" Odds say that Harkux is innocent, so odds are lynching him won't reveal diddly squat.

Vote: Daganev

There are still 3 people who voted no lynch? I know Shiri and I unvoted, so who's left?

Except that Harkux really isn't some sort of major suspect, except in your eyes. If Harkux is town, it tells us nothing about Dag. If Dag is town, it tells us nothing about Harkux. All Harkux has done is be a bit newbish, which is all fine and good, and yes, that's sometimes reason to lynch, but in this case she really hasn't done anything that screams "OMGSCUM!!!1!"

If we lynch Dag, I'm sure one of our investigators will go after Harkux, in which case lynching Dag does give us an opportunity to learn more about Harkux, because it brings about Night that much quicker.

Really, Dag has done just as much to come off as suspicious as anyone else, so, yeah. And as I said before, mass claiming in this kind of power-heavy game is not inherently bad, so stop acting as if it is.

In addition to what Sadhyra said, surely Daganev's town-itude would prove Harkux's to the same degree as it is the other way around. Also, of the two, Daganev just looks the scummiest. Harkux's main crime is not saying anything useful and being wishywashy. Daganev is posting misleading things, amongst other stuff.

Fania: well, I guess you're not responsible for it, but it's presumably some ability or another weird NPC thing, we don't actually know but the votecount's not wrong in that respect (probably.)

I don't think the presences are anything we can do about at the moment, I think they are the remaining NPC's, and they are voting No lynch because the mod doesnt want to kill any players with NPC's.

And we can't vote for presences, either :/

Ummm, Harkux never role-revealed. In fact, Harkux hasn't posted much at all. Go check her posts again.

It was Dai who roleclaimed, at threat to himself, as he has a rival. This is something that people are trying to peg on Daganev, but it's not Daganev's fault that Dai claimed as much as he did. That's Dai's fault for basically standing up and screaming, "HERE I AM, RIVAL."

At the risk of seeming scummy, since it would be expected for scum to defend scum since they know who each other are, I'm not ready to jump on that bandwagon. I would rather do a day one lynch of somone who is less active but still questionable. I'm going to keep my vote where it is for now but I'll FOS Narsrim because he jumped me that one time a while back and killed me for no apparent reason and that was pretty scummy.

To be more specific the Dag train

I'm only making an educated guess with this, but Harkux was afraid of Dai's powers against herself.
This means he's most likely one of the top four. She can't be Link/Toon Link, because Link's main enemy
Ganandorf is out of the picture thanks to Samus. Casilu was revealed to be Bowser at the time, so she's
not likely to be Mario. I haven't played this series to know for sure, but I'm not sure if Pikachu has a rival.

My big guess that she'd be Wario. There is also the chance of her being Metaknight, Wolf, and some slight chance
of being Donkey Kong (but only if Donkey Kong is seen as a bad guy in this game). In any case I believe her to be
one of the "bad" guys until I find evidence against this.

If Pikachu has a rival here, and he probably does there is a slight chance she could be Pikachu or the rival. In any case, she still seems a little fishy to me.

Sorry, I meant leading Dai into a situation where he roleclaimed (he had a train on him, he thought it the best way to save his butt). It's nearly 30 pages and I have powered through most of them in one sitting. I hope you'll excuse the typo.

...unless you're Daganev. Ha.

Also, am I recalling right when I remember Dag being the one to badger Dai into clarifying more and more about his role, once he revealed the first bit? I remember someone pushed and prodded for more info.

I can't tell if Caerulo and Co are misrepresenting what I wrote on purpose or if they really just don't get it.

Dai told everybody he has a rival. In most games, this is enough information for the rival to know who that person is. If you look at my time stamps, I gave Hurkux 1 hour to do something that would make me feel that I got a false positive on my trap. IF you read my posts again, you will see that I sepcifically told dai NOT to reveal information that his rival would not know about. but instead, Dai did the opposite. Really not my fault he was stupid.

Selective quoting is bad. And when I get to work, in 1 hour I'll go through and show you ALL my quotes, not just the selective ones that were quoted. Also, in EVERY game , Shiri thinks I am scum. I'm not surprised to see him do it again. And in every game Shiri seems to ignore my traps that I set, and every time I've set them, I correctly identified scum. I am so certain that I would be willing for you guys to lynch me tommorow if Harkux isn't scum.

Regardin the tomato. I said Narsrim was scummy for revealing information on the item... why would I then reveal information about my tomato? I think that revealing info on items is a BAD IDEA. For example, if my tomato gave me nightkill immunity, I wouldn't want the scum to know that, because I would rather they target me and waste a kill. So I'm not going to say what the tomato does or doesn't do. Telling the scum "hey look I'm immune don't waste a kill on me" just seems like a bad idea, as does saying "hey look I have this awesome item, you should try to steal it from me tonight!"

And what exactly is suspicious about revealing the fact that we have two roleblockers? I found it odd that I was roleblocked on the first night TWICE! I thought that was important information for us to know, that two roleblockers exist.

Incase this isn't clear to people I'll try to restate it. (and ofcourse my logic is convoluted, we are dealing with psychology and human beings here, not logical robot machines)

Harkux is a noob. This means that she is likely to make noob scum mistakes. One such mistake is the fact that she was the third person to vote on a lynch train. Noob scum do this because they think, Oh it looks like this train is going somewhere, if I just causally vote after two other people vote, then I will just look like a follower townie. However, real noob townies don't act this way. Instead they tend to wait for 5 or 6 votes, because of the greater likely hood of being correct, and the desire to not step on anyone's toes who might be townie. Further, Harkux did not provide his own reasoning for adding his vote to the lynch. Instead, he mimicked the reasoning provided by others, and did so in a way which would allow him to quickly remove his vote or keep it there without causing suspicion. (i.e. being unsure, yet also sounding forceful about it) Llandros and Kiri, provided thier own reasoning for voting for Dai. That is, because Dai made himself such a target, they felt that voting for him would be the only way to get the info that he hinted at.

All in all, Harkux has done everything that a noob scum would be likely to do. I'm not sure why this concept is hard for people to understand. Only with experienced players such as Shiri would those types of "scum tells" not be valid, because he is aware of them. But for a noob like Harkux, I don't see what is wrong with it.

No, you're right. Daganev did poke and prod and badger Dai into revealing more than he should have. And if I remember correctly, Dai's a new player to these games too, so prolly didn't know any better. Supposedly it was for a trap, but it's a pretty random trap.

I don't think you understand what Furien said. Furien claimed that the Mod made a typo, not that furien made a typo. (however his timeline for said typo still doesn't make sense. I suggest you go back and read all of furien's posts. That said, I do belive that Furien just completely got confused as to what everything was, but lieing about it just made it seem more suspicious. Because I caught him in his lie. (which he admited to making))

And no you are not remembering correctly. I told Dai he was being an idiot for revealing info about his powers, and not revealing his name. Because whomever his rival is, would allready know his name by the simple fact that he stated he has a rival. Dai also only had 3 votes on himself. That isn't much of a train.

there is more on hurkux I could explain, but the biggest problem is that the more I explain, the more harkux will be able to act diferently. There is realy only one thing Harkux can do right now which will convince me that he is infact not scum, but I'm not going to say what that is for obvious reasons. But at this point, I'm certain enough of HArkux being scum that I'd put myself up to be lynched tommorow if he wasn't.

I pressured Dai too after he made such a BIG blunder. At that point he really didn't have much to lose, but again he complicated things for himself even further.

I found Furien to be very suspiscous after the reble announcement which i thought at the time was a huge mistake for him to make. I don't think his response was totally unbelieveable though since it is early in the game and people could reasonably confuse things they haven't memorized or don't appreciate the importance of.

I'm starting to lean more and more toward lynching Harkux being the best direction to take at this point.

Vote Harkux

I think it's the safest bet.

I still don't understand how any and every mistake is a noob scum tell.
Everybody makes mistakes. Including noob townies, and experienced whatever.
Saying "oh, noob townies wouldn't do this, they'd do that" isn't always true. It might be what you would do, but it's not true for everybody. People think differently!

Also, that 1 hour to convince me you're not scum thing is totally bogus.
Not everybody checks these forums five times every hour. Also, how would she know that you were talking to her? And agreeing with faulty logic isn't falling for a trap, it's agreeing with faulty logic. Two different things.

I'm keeping my vote on Daganev.