Fighting to a draw is one thing. Winning a fight when you can't get in the trees is another, and the simple fact is that Shadowdancers own the trees and don't sell tickets for admission.

No. I don't think you understand. I never lost because I always won. There were no draws. Likewise, I was a big fan of perch to avoid sylph.

Were you fighting Marina? Did the Shadowdancer leave the cauldron at home? Lolbrumetower >>>> lolsap.

Well, it isn't like you're going to be sapping anyone in choke anyway. On the other hand, I can't remember if I ever fought Druid Nars as a Shadowdancer, but I can't think of any way of actually winning that fight as a Druid either.

I didn't need sap to win. I just killed them after they choked with raw damage. I'd stack blacklung, epilepsy, dysentry, and daydreams (usually with confusion from demesne) with narcolepsy. Walk outside the room, and just cudgel them to death. With 23 intelligence and a war blessing, I killed Shadowdancers quite quickly. I even killed warriors who choked on me like Lisarel easy peasy too using this same method (no sap involved!)

Ciaran knows better than to choke. That might be the trick right there.

Ok. He'd eventually start passing out to sleep attrition and be unable to fight. With control up, what could he possibly do to dent a Dreamweaving Blacktalon?

Meteor smashy-smashy.

How does he possibly hold you down for metor in a demesne?

Aeon, balance lock, and pooka your little dreamweaver to sleep.

EDIT: And you don't have much of a demesne, because you're brumetowered.

How do you possibly or even remotely stick aeon on someone with Astrology? How do you balance lock outside of choke? You can't pooka sleep AND relax metawake... you really should invest in Catarin's free system. It sounds like you might like it. A lot.

No. You can. You have to have the pooka get a mind lock, wait a second before the next actual lock would happen, then combo 'order metawake off' 'order person sleep'. Though that takes a fairly complicated set-up, as you have to have the pixie tic between the two pooka orders. But then you can use Sleepmist from Beast and a Sleep enchant, and viola.. Sleeplocked Dreamweaver. The odds of it working are slim, but it is possible if timed correctly.

Sticking Aeon with Astrology depends entirely on sleeplock, which is also possible for Astrologers to do right now if they use abuse the tools available to them.

Balance Lock outside of Choke.. No idea with that one.

EDIT: And I'm voting Cantors. Just for the lulz.

Except pixie, beast sleep and sleep enchant don't work on a DW with control. And that would require timing to a fraction of a second and can't really be done in aeon, so you'd better hope nothing hinders you or their ping doesn't beat yours to putting metawake back up.

(hilariously, I used to own dreamweavers with pooka force sleep because they never bothered with insomnia, but that would have been foiled by metawake)

They won't put them to sleep, but they'll still strip kafe and such if the Dreamweaver IS asleep. And yes, it requires meticulous timing down to the luck of the ping. But as far as Metawake, Brownie will knock them off bal long enough so they can't immediately put it back up. But again, it depends on the ping. Heh.

EDIT: Control just prevents them from being put to sleep by forceful means. Any other form of sleep attack will still strip Insomnia and Kafe. Sleep attack order is: Insomnia Stripped -> Fall asleep -> Kafe stripped. But you know this. Control prevents only the 2nd step, BUT can be overrode if they are ordered to sleep, and that fulfills the second step for sleeplock.

I don't think this would actually work. It's also about as far from practical as I've ever heard.

This is possible only assuming your target is stand still and doing nothing (good luck finding a competent druid in a meld who does this). Even then, it's going to require that your connection have zero lag and that their connection has lag. On a T3 connection (40+ mbps), I tested triggering doublewhammy sleep after pixie fired, and it almost never worked.

Likewise, they should have around 1 second to put metawake back up assuming they standing still (I know I have it triggered). You have to pooka metawake down, pixie must fire, you must recover pooka balance, order the target to sleep, and you must use beast balance and a sleep enchantment. There is no way you can input this many actions that fast before they can compensate by a single action to break this assuming equal speeds given the inherent small delay between each command.

It's also so unlike that it's relatively nonsense to mention it. I mean technically speaking, you could get hit by crucify and demon stupidity and fail to writhe 10 times in a row, which results in an easy sacrifice. It's possible. It's, however, in no shape or form a rational argument for or against crucify/sacrifice.

What?

No. It's quite viable to pull it off. You're not going to pull it off if you create a trigger. Matt Mihaly once used a term called 'chasing equlibrium/balance' to effectively time your attacks as soon as you're about to regen balance/eq. That way, you'd time it exactly with the tic. The same method applies with Pixie. Time your pixie, create an echo, and enter your command BEFORE it tics. Same with Pooka. Back when I had a 56 kbps connection (oh yes, Dial-up), it worked. You don't make a trigger for it. Of course they're going to have time otherwise. Just as a note, it's very difficult to do though. I only managed to pull it off for a true sleeplock but a few times, but it's still very possible to do. It's just that no one tries to do it, honestly.

The trigger you have should be a temporary alarm half timer warning and a 1s warning to the pixie tick, to which you manually input and try to land it all at once. No matter if you were on an OC3, the real slowdown in trigger input is client feedback. If you input on a trigger, then you are command racing them rather than pushing a prediction-based offense.

Edit: You can see that kind of usage with some of my logs of Atabahi spinerip off paralysis howl. Triggering it is at best 50/50, but using warning echos and throwing the command as the paralysis howl timer should be going off will net you results every time you don't jump the gun.

This is all nonsense. Lets build the strongest class with the existing skills of the game... The strongest class would have a druid demense (help me out with either BT or Hartstone), he could pinleg, and wind mantra. Someone else pick up...

choke

BT Druidry, Nihilism (mostly for Cosmic), Hexes if you have an awesome system. Bonecrusher, Healing, Acrobatics if you don't mind winning when you get around to it.