It does take only a second but with ectoplasm its 2 seconds or so, and then you have scabies epilepsy the intitial loss from crucify and deathmark so it adds up. Sometimes that 2 seconds is the difference between a successful kill and a failed sac

Then what is the difference between forcing that and secrets?

never mind...

Secrets is marginally harder since you have to leave and have them not chase first, due to requiring eq.

My point was that if you're going to do something like that, might as well go all the way.

People majorly mess up, that's how. I cannot currently kill anyone who knows what they're doing.

On topic, though.
The question should be why the power cost on soulless needs to be increased at all.
If the -only- answer to that is because using it in conjunction with inquisition is way overpowered, then just make inquisitioning harder (not that I'd propagate it), seeing as there are more classes using soulless and the inquisition/soulless pairing has nothing to do with them.

Also, doesn't trying to writhe work off eq/bal unless you're writhing off a cross/impale? That would be the reason to use that, I guess.

Yes, you can force writhe off balance and eq which is the other reason to use it. Its either 1 second or 2 seconds with ectoplasm. Secrets is EQ, dig is like 6s balance. How you are saying going all the way of 1 or 2 seconds vs 6 seconds is beyond me. Difference is one is a part of acceptable strategy (same as dominating to remove metawake) and the other is whoring something just for the sake of a win.

Which brings the question of what defines the line? The tactic is the exact same in premise, the only difference is how far you're willing to push it.

For example, let's say you were a Cacophonist and just stuck powerspikes on someone, would it be wrong to force them to drink vitae by this system? That would lead to like... what? 4k damage?

What is this secrets that I keep seeing? I try to do SECRETS, nothing happens.

It's the only skill in the game I can think of that actually has no reason to exist except to annoy you. It has a chance (yes, a chance) on a longass eq to detect hidden exits in a room. The same hidden exits that you can, and do, just walk through if you know they're there and spam directions if you don't. Not only is it forceable, but it procs off stupidity frequently, throwing you off-eq at crucial moments.

What do you need to use it? I can't use it, either on SECRETS or SECRET.

Edit: Never mind, found it. I don't have high enough Environment...

See the bolded. That should be the focus. If we want to re-design sacraments to make it more viable for Paladins and Celestines, giving it the versatility Narsrim mentioned- fine. Giving soulless a power cost? Yet another silly and unnecessary band-aid solution to a small problem.

I mean, you know, since Paladins struggle with Sacraments, let's make it so Celestines suck too. Good strategy.

Nice ignoring of the reasoning and shooting straight to alarmist exaggeration.

I wash myself in talent and foresight; I condition with creativity. /offtopic

Using dominate is not dirty. Dig is a little extreme, but there are plenty of actions you could use. My personal favorite as a Nihilist was to something like: Order . For example: Order Sarrasri Moonburst Crone.

This would knock her off equilibrium for 4 seconds, set her fae on her, give me plenty of time to recover/fling, etc.

I think Celestines used to be excusable back before Pre-DMP, when they were so damn tanky that it was used as an excuse to not allow them to have a larger and broader repetoire of offensive capabilities solely because of Inquisition and their tankiness. But, this pattern shows itself across IRE on a whole. For example:

* Shadowdancers were not allowed buffs because of Pre-Choke. Now, they could probably get a few in
* Mages across IRE are pretty much not allowed as many buffs due to Retardation
* Noctu/Occultists arent allowed buffs because their offense is 100% passive, for the most part.

EDIT: Come to think of it, the bottom two are poor examples. The first isn't, though.

It's just a pretty obvious pattern that when you have one trend of a good offense, people don't want to give you buffs. What I see with Celestine is that they have a lot of abilities that build up to an actual lock or some form of offense (like Sleep, Absolve, etc) but have no way of actually going about it against a capable person. Inquisition, while difficult, is possible to pull off, but.. Celestines are obscenely cookie-cutter. You know what they're going for when you fight them. I personally just leave the room at Heretic.

Meh, finding out about the secrets thing totally killed the mysticism. I thought secrets was this literally secret action that could only be used when dominated/pookaed into using it.

I think that's a case of Taelure? I mean... I think this is a situation in which people normally use the term.
I was a Celestine pre-DMP and unless my memory fails me terribly, they were as far from tanky as I am from a Masters Degree in Quantum Physics. You could actually see people playing as Lobo's and Taurians to tank better and get those Soulless rubs and set them up for Inquisition.

Mages (post-DMP changes) on the other hand have loads of DMP... Stoneskin, elementalshield, spiritshield, phantomarmour, biofeedback, mindbar, psiarmour plus a bit more if you're a TK.

Now, if we look at Celestines... nothing really.

We get Halo! So there.

Heh. Celestines. Tanky. Rofl.

Fear the 8-dmp Halo. And the.... 4p numen? 10p trueheal? chant draconis?

Nothing alarmist or exaggerated about it- except for the perception of Sacraments over the years. Exaggerated, absolutely. Sacraments has more cons than pros. I've said this for ages. I mean, sacrifice is a mythical level ability that kills the player and does absolutely nothing for them. 220 credits to kill myself? Yippee. Most suggestions for replacement abilities have been shot down. Celestines with tarot are heavily reliant on the inquisition line, but even then it doesn't make them the pk-on-wheels tank-monsters people think they are *peer Tael* There have been a mere handful of Celestines able to compete, but that's irrelevant.

I don't think nerfing tarot is the answer to dealing with Sacraments.