Since Estarra asked this to go into a new thread and one hasn't been made yet...

Might as well continue the discussion here.

As a backnote, Vernal Ascension has been out for approximately 1 year now.
EVENTS NEWS #108
Date: 3/8/2008 at 2:16
From: Anonymous
To : Everyone
Subj: A Vernal Ascendant rises

And Glomdoring raised their first 4 days after this post, on the 12th.

First of all, you have the Domoths (which are still seen as being very painful). There is both the time involved and the lack of ability to actually use it as an alternative to raiding-- you don't get to choose when Domoths happen, the person who owns the Domoth does. And since the rewards on them are tied to an org, it's in their interests to challenge as an organization when there's little-to-no competition around.

Second, you have Ascendants in general. Serenwilde has raised 4 at this point, Glomdoring has raised 2 (and is talking about a third), Celest has 2 (and I've heard something about raising a third?) and Magnagora has 1. That's 9 Ascendants raised via a Nexus.

Though the Domoth power gain was nerfed, the actual rewards from it were never actually touched... and it is still dumping a large amount of power into the game. 4500p a day for 9 Crowns-- which is a lot better than 9,000, but still excessive. The number was pointed out as being excessive the day the Domoths were brought into the game. This isn't a fault of the players, but it leads to a situation which is itself imbalanced-- some organizations have gotten a glut of power which is no longer even possible, and are still enjoying the lesser gains. There is very little way for the odds to ever even, as the power cost to raise an Ascendant is a flat 1,000,000. It is always the same cost, no matter how many you have raised, and there is no reason not to keep raising them as you can.

One option is to start bumping the power cost up by 500,000 power for each Ascendant you have, so it becomes more and more difficult to raise extra Ascendants, with some minor reduction put in place for raising Demigods (say, it's only an extra 250,000 power for each Ascendant when there's a Demigod being raised). This doesn't really help with Ascendants who have already been created, but perhaps something could be done to slow down power growth for a while until things are evened out.

Eh, I guess I've already posted a lot of my concerns/issues on this subject time and time again, so maybe better if I just stop with my rambling. Do you all have any comments / observations? Bring them here!

I would rather see a cap on the number of Ascendants. No matter how much you increase it by, the org with the most Ascendants will have the most Domoths, which will pump the most power into the nexus, making it easier to raise more Ascendants. In a time where the game is imbalanced by the number we already, I'm not keen on seeing any more.

It would have to be capped based on active Ascendants. I used to play a game called Evarayn, where artisans were allowed to craft unique, original items that they have seen and examined. Some of these items were awesome, but had to be found by a player in a hidden place in the world, and only that one original would ever exist. If a new artisan wanted to craft it, they had to contact the artisan who actually owned it to examine the original.
It didn't take too long before all of the players with the original items were inactive (never to return) and no new player was ever allowed to craft said item again.

My point: have to think in the long term.

Capping the number of ascendants is absolutely the worst idea ever. It's not fair to those down the road to say "sorry you can't be an ascendant because 2 years ago we made all them. Yes I know only 1 of them is active now, but hey! The players decided 10 was the limit and that's just tough."

Edit:: I prefer Xenthos' idea. Make it cost more for each new ascendant, I think 200k everytime you raise an new one is good, with that being halved if the person is a demigod. Again you have to think long term. So the next ascendant raised, costs 1.2 million, then 1.4, then 1.6 and so on.

You sir, got ninjaed.

Capping the number of ascendents would be a bad idea. How about just deleting the vernal ones?

Yeahno. Please come back with a real idea.

Out of curiosity: What do you see as the issues with the system of Ascendant/Domoths? If any?

Go back to the Age of Ascension! (Ascended Gods and such)

That sounds counterproductive, to half the cost for an ever-growing number of people, while raising the cost to limit the number of Ascendants.

Well, if you raise a Demigod to Ascendant, you aren't actively inflating the number of "Demigod-caliber individuals". In fact, you're actually reducing the ability to make another Demigod by 1 million + ((#x / 2) * #VAs).

Hmm, true, I hadn't really looked at it that way. Any particular reason though why it should cost less to raise a Demi?

I will address this from two angles; mechanics and RP

Mechanics - Ascendant:

1. It is way to easy to churn them out once you have your first active Ascendant
2. The skillset for Ascendants while flavourful and free in terms of not needing credits to learn is lackluster in actual use. Especially Cult skills, barring 1 or 2.


Mechanics - Domoths:
1. Being able to put all domoths on 1 race is stupid, no ifs and's or buts about it.
2. 1 person holding more than 1 domoth is stupid as well. They can already claim faster they don't need to hold multiple.
3. Domoths are a chore. Plain and simple. People expect you to rush out and grab the domoth so they can be better at whatever it is they want to be better at. If you don't put the domoth on a particular race people complain to you. If you don't get the domoth upgraded fast enough people complain to you. Case in Point the Map of the catacombs I have never seen so much whining as I do when Shuyin doesn't instantly log on to renew the map.

RolePlay - Ascendants:

1. Is there any? Ascendants are not raised by virtue of what they have done for an Organistion in their life, there is no standard to even apply to be an ascendant come voting time. It is purely "let's raise so and so cause we need this skillset in Domoth fights"

Roleplay - Domoths:

1. See above.

To encourage giving Demis some RP-skills instead of raising more Demigods.

That is, really, the main point of raising Ascendants-- there's a few RP-ish skills in the Ascendance skillset, but the main purpose is to make Demigods and inflate your organization's combat power. You raise combatants who aren't Demigods.

Seriously Kiriwe, If you don't have anything constructive to contribute don't contribute.

I'm pretty sure that's just not going to happen. You'd have to 1) Nix all Vernals and scrap the current system, and 2) Have the orgs pick 3 new Gods (Magnagora probably wouldn't do much for a while). Which the Admin have no control over. They got "lucky" with Ilyarin according to Estarra, but I really don't see them allowing it to happen again.

Yes. It's like when people say delete monks. It should be a good idea, but will never happen.

I am putting in my two cents, which I have just as much a right to do as anybody. You are not a mod, so please, stop pretending you are.


Anyways. I don't even understand why we have Vernal Ascendents in the first place. All I see it doing is taking away from the special value of being an Ascendent because they are rare. (Not that Vernal Ascendents are common) And like it's been stated, pretty much only non-demi's get raised, to add combat value to the organisation in question. And that is why I would prefer if they were deleted. But of course, they won't be, since they are already instated.

Right, so instead of adding constructive points to the discussion. You are trolling. Glad we got that cleared up.

Pretty much have to agree with all these points above.