Brewmastery and Tinkering

by Furien

Back to Common Grounds.

Kiradawea2009-04-06 10:24:26
QUOTE (Esano @ Apr 6 2009, 11:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The main gripe I have is that the money-making skills of Enchantment (cubes, sigils) are all in a before-Master ability whereas beforehand they were scattered all the way up to 50% Mythical or so for cubes. Now they're at 50% Adept.

I mean, even heirlooms (which most people get their enchantments on, apart from rings) are down there.

There's no monetary incentive to keep on learning. Pent/hexangles don't make up for it; they just seem to be so you can say "But we looked at caster bashing!" when a half-second and 5% damage which needs to be re-done every 36 hours won't really fix the discrepancy present. Statues, paintings, hearts ... all very rare. And I tend to do statues for free as they're a security risk to leave unenchanted.

I'm kind of regretting relearning all the way up. Fear my near-mythical enchanted ignite!

This.

The only thing Alchemy and Enchantment had going for them was profit, and everything that made real money has been taken from the specializations and put into the general skills. We're frustrated because we've had lots of things taken away from us and been given nothing in return. Hexangle is not worth the upkeep, and Pentangle barely so. Heck, even the argument about not being able to put em on druid and wicca talismans fall apart when they have been given a passive buff, that while not as great, does not need the same amount of upkeep.

I have not spoken to a single Spellcrafter who is happy with these changes. I am not, Meliana is not. Aison... isn't one anymore because of these changes.
Unknown2009-04-06 10:48:39
But, it's not like you don't have the skills anymore, you still have them. Just that now Bards can do it too, and not all Bards are going to be Enchanters. Sure, you lose some business in the communes, but you'll still keep the main bulk of your profit.
Shiri2009-04-06 10:59:12
Incentive to keep learning or otherwise, all it really demonstrates is that being the only guilds able to sell that stuff was a great financial advantage. Now you have to deal with not even as much free trade as every other tradeskill, maybe prices will drop, but your stuff is still critical.

I just hope (and it looks like it'll be in vain from the list) it doesn't turn out that enchanters can still screw you because of the important stuff still left in the city-only specs, whereas the most important things in alchemy (health potions and most curatives) are now free for all orgs. At least sigils are less obnoxious now (which has the unfortunate side effect of making kick and run raids on communes cost a fabled skill instead of a 2000cr artefact.)

Also, half a second off caster bashing won't help? That's like a full 8th at normal speed and more at higher speeds. That's huge. The 5% bonus on top is gravy.

At least 2 of the 3 problems this was trying to solve have been solved, I guess, so overall it was a decent use of time.
Esano2009-04-06 11:02:07
QUOTE (Shiri @ Apr 6 2009, 08:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
(which has the unfortunate side effect of making kick and run raids on communes cost a fabled skill instead of a 2000cr artefact.)

Adept for monoliths, unless you're meaning tesseract.

EDIT: And I don't mind the more people having access to it, I mind it being moved down so much. I'd much prefer to combine cosmic and elemental enchantment, giving full access to both groups to all enchanters, and putting stuff back where it was.
Unknown2009-04-06 11:04:43
I'm just thinking that the previous Alchemists and Enchanters retain the bulk of their previous skills, lose a few skills, and gain a few skills. And have more competitors. Is that really that bad?
Ashteru2009-04-06 11:06:39
QUOTE (Esano @ Apr 6 2009, 11:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Adept for monoliths, unless you're meaning tesseract.

EDIT: And I don't mind the more people having access to it, I mind it being moved down so much. I'd much prefer to combine cosmic and elemental enchantment, giving full access to both groups to all enchanters, and putting stuff back where it was.

He means disenchant.
Shiri2009-04-06 11:10:22
QUOTE (Esano @ Apr 6 2009, 12:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
EDIT: And I don't mind the more people having access to it, I mind it being moved down so much. I'd much prefer to combine cosmic and elemental enchantment, giving full access to both groups to all enchanters, and putting stuff back where it was.

That part was directed at Kiradawea. I have no particular opinion on your hypothetical there, as long as communes and cities both have good access to the most relevant parts of alchemy and enchantments the order of the skillset is a non-issue as far as I'm concerned. If I'm understanding you right, you would be ok with cubes being at like myth of both tinkering and the other thing - that would be fine.
Kiradawea2009-04-06 11:16:43
Learn to read. I said it won't matter when communes get almost the same boost, but for free. Prices will likely not drop. Enchanters are already selling as cheap as they can to still make a profit, but there will be more tradesfolk with that tradeskill out and about, hence less business.
Esano2009-04-06 11:18:15
QUOTE (Ashteru @ Apr 6 2009, 09:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
He means disenchant.

The ability to disenchant a sigil is the same ability as the one you use to create it. That is, you only need the same skill level to disenchant as you do to enchant. So about adept for monoliths, which are the highest.

CODE
ENCHANTMENT - MONOLITH

Syntax: ENCHANT SIGIL MONOLITH
To Use:  Put it on the ground
At a mystic pentagram you can create monolith sigils at a small cost of
power reserves. The monolith sigil will prevent most forms of magical
instant travel into the room.

Syntax: DISENCHANT SIGIL MONOLITH
Power: 2 (any)
You can disenchant sigils from anywhere, though it must be on the ground
before you. This will return the sigil to its component parts.

Ingredients: gold 1 silver 1 platinum 1 iron 1


See?
Shiri2009-04-06 11:20:40
I wasn't talking about disenchant, there's a few things...also, pyramids, which someone mentioned earlier but at least that's still an artefact. Guess we'll just have to hope it doesn't come up much.

QUOTE (Unrelated to above post)
The only thing Alchemy and Enchantment had going for them was profit, and everything that made real money has been taken from the specializations and put into the general skills


Getting something wrong whichever way you put it.
Tekora2009-04-06 11:57:26
Now that Bards have taken this important step forward, can we get a Monks-only tradeskill now?
Shiri2009-04-06 12:00:02
QUOTE (Tekora @ Apr 6 2009, 12:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Now that Bards have taken this important step forward, can we get a Monks-only tradeskill now?

Estarra's rejected this flatly in the past, so I guess we can only hope for other kinds of better integration.
Narsrim2009-04-06 12:00:53
QUOTE (Kiradawea @ Apr 6 2009, 06:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This.

The only thing Alchemy and Enchantment had going for them was profit, and everything that made real money has been taken from the specializations and put into the general skills. We're frustrated because we've had lots of things taken away from us and been given nothing in return. Hexangle is not worth the upkeep, and Pentangle barely so. Heck, even the argument about not being able to put em on druid and wicca talismans fall apart when they have been given a passive buff, that while not as great, does not need the same amount of upkeep.

I have not spoken to a single Spellcrafter who is happy with these changes. I am not, Meliana is not. Aison... isn't one anymore because of these changes.


Given you aren't known as being a basher or a combatant, I'm going to grant you a big fat lol. I already can tell a significant difference in being 0.5 seconds faster (more so because I can stack it with Celerity to be even faster!).
Narsrim2009-04-06 12:03:17
And upkeep, I mean seriously. It's 20 magic ink every 36 hours. 36 hours! As for the profit nonsense, I think everyone is just overreacting. You can still make gold with enchanting. You just can't rip people off as easily. Huge difference. It also makes enchanters with artifact gloves more valuable than ever!

It also increases the profitability of sigils because now they are very short term items whereas in the past, it could take time to get someone who could disenchant.
Ashteru2009-04-06 12:10:01
Well, can't tesseract or use pyramid if there are sigils there, so I think you would have to mean the disenchanting of sigils. I have no clue what else in enchantment could make raiding easier, otherwise. confused.gif
Lendren2009-04-06 12:46:48
QUOTE (Sylphas @ Apr 5 2009, 10:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
BREWMEISTER - TEACEREMONY

Syntax: TEACEREMONY
This ritualistic ceremony must have at least 10 people in attendance, and the brewmeister must have more than enough tea to serve to everyone.

Do dining tables reduce these requirements as they do for fetes? (If not, shouldn't they?)
Unknown2009-04-06 12:48:47
QUOTE (Lendren @ Apr 6 2009, 08:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Do dining tables reduce these requirements as they do for fetes? (If not, shouldn't they?)

I don't know, traditional tea ceremonies aren't usually held at tables, at least in the Japanese and Chinese culture I think.
Lendren2009-04-06 12:59:07
Well, what they should really use is my high tea basket...
QUOTE
You carefully study an artisan design.
Item: Basket Type: Baskets Org: Milkweed
Commodities: wood 2 cloth 2 rosehips 1
Container: Yes Can Have Lock: No
IMPORTANT: The main noun of this item MUST use this name: BASKET
Appearance:
an elegant high tea picnic basket
Dropped:
An elegant picnic basket decorated with wildflowers is set up here for a high tea.
Examined:
This light picnic basket is fashioned from slats of undyed wood woven at
diagonals, through which petals of wildflowers have been entwined to
give it a rustic charm. The centre of the basket is a round cubby shaped
to hold a teapot and several cups, which can also be set on the basket's
lid, allowing it to serve as a small table on which the tea may be set
up and displayed. The cubby is lined with sturdy linen cloth which
serves to insulate its contents against jarring blows as well as to keep
in heat. The sides of the basket swing open to reveal three small
shelves of just the right height to store delicate tea sandwiches. These
shelves can be slid partially out to display the sandwiches, providing
an elegant setting for a high tea in any location.

But how about carpets being the thing to reduce number of people and amount of tea, like tables do for fetes? That would give carpets a use, too, which would be great.
Gwylifar2009-04-06 13:01:26
QUOTE (Sylphas @ Apr 5 2009, 10:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Didn't see them anywhere, so:
CODE
You have gained the following abilities in Brewmeister:
AmberMalt           Brews up delicious amber ales that can soothe away pain.

You left out the AB for this one.
Xenthos2009-04-06 13:40:54
QUOTE (Narsrim @ Apr 6 2009, 08:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
And upkeep, I mean seriously. It's 20 magic ink every 36 hours. 36 hours! As for the profit nonsense, I think everyone is just overreacting. You can still make gold with enchanting. You just can't rip people off as easily. Huge difference. It also makes enchanters with artifact gloves more valuable than ever!

It also increases the profitability of sigils because now they are very short term items whereas in the past, it could take time to get someone who could disenchant.

I don't see it increasing the profitability of sigils, really.

The market's just crashed, at least where the Communes are concerned. When anyone with 180 lessons or less can completely wipe out a sigil supply... why bother buying them for EthGlom/EthSeren? Guildhalls, sure, but we were already buying them for that, and that was only about half our market.

When you make things too temporary, there's very little use. sad.gif

(I mean, Celestia and Nil are full of flamed monoliths, right? Right? tongue.gif )