Policy

by Narsrim

Back to Common Grounds.

Narsrim2009-04-05 00:42:32
QUOTE (Estarra @ Apr 4 2009, 08:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Taking bug or envoy issues onto the forums in an effort to force the admin to look at your what is your own agenda isn't the proper way to go about dealing with the situation.


How does one deal with a problem in the proper way when:

1) It was raised by an envoy (Desitrus) and was ignored.

2) It has been bugged by multiple people and rejected.

3) It can clearly be proven to be a bug even after the administration has claimed it doesn't exist.

4) A forum post detailing this was shut down because it was improper.

I'm really not sure what the proper protocol is at this point... do we just ignore it and pretend it doesn't exist?
Rodngar2009-04-05 00:45:50
It shouldn't be ignored any more than Forging should be.

Should be, however, tends to be a make believe state in which everything goes nicely. Not so much.
Narsrim2009-04-05 00:49:01
I really do hope Estarra responds. I'm going to be very disappointed if she shut down my thread addressing a real problem her administration claimed didn't exist on the basis that I'm not following proper protocol without suggesting what proper protocol is when all other avenues have been exhausted.

This is really starting to remind me of old Varian in old Aetolia.
Estarra2009-04-05 04:57:20
The alleged bug was rejected as it was an envoy issue (as it was written), rather than a bug. I closed your thread because I felt you were being manipulative insofar that you were not discussing the issue but rather using the forums as a bully pulpit to get attention from the administration to relook at a bug. As you know, we ask that people not use the forums to report bugs.

I do not recall the alleged bug being bugged multiple times nor do I recall the envoys discussing it. Even if that's so, there are better ways to discuss the issue than being a drama queen by jumping up and down and telling the admin to stop ignoring you (which makes us roll our eyes and ignore you). That said, I would have no problem with you discussing the issue in a thread on the merits. Drop the drama and we may even discuss it with you.
Daganev2009-04-05 05:05:40
hmm, I was expecting you to say Support@Lusternia.com ...
Shaddus2009-04-05 05:08:43
I don't know exactly what is going on, but I know Ceren's staffing does SUBSTANTIALLY more damage than Narsrims.

I'm not sure of the exact numbers, but we did the math, and Ceren's does around 45%+ of my max. Narsrims, maybe 25% if that. I would be willing to test this if you wish, but I really think there's something amiss.

QUOTE
score
| High Elder Shaddus Mes'ard, Crimson Councilor --------------------------|
| Sex : Male Birthday : 9th Klangiary 177 |
| Race : Aslaran Age : 54 |
| Mentor : Nobody Mentorship: Able to mentor |
|------------------------------------------------------------------ VITALS|
| Health : 3863/4146 Endurance : 16400/16400 Power : 10p |
| Mana : 3920/4140 Willpower : 18800/18800 Reserves : 16% |
| Ego : 4140/3900 Mindset : Analytical Esteem : 1% |
|------------------------------------------------------------------- KARMA|
| Karma : 80% |
| The karmic blessing of life : 15 hours 23 minutes |
| The karmic blessing of war : 15 hours 39 minutes |
|---------------------------------------------------------------- RANKINGS|
| Experience : #235 Supramortal Level : 80 (49.68%) |
| Explorer : #140 an Elemental Tracker |
|----------------------------------------------------------- ORGANISATIONS|
| Collegium : the College of Necromantic & Tainted Research (honours, |
| Professor) |
| Guild : One of the Conclave of Dark Reavers, Challenger of the |
| Light, Harvester of the Flesh, Guild Archivist in the |
| Ninjakari |
| City : Marquis in the Mighty Province of Magnagora |
| Aide To : the Minister of Power, the Minister of Trade, and the |
| Minister of Cultural Affairs |
| Order : Crimson Councillor of Fain, of the Red Masque |
|------------------------------------------------------- CLANS AND CARTELS|
| The Wyrmwood Artisan Cartel* Black Lullaby |
| The Council Advisory Clockwork Craftwork Artisan Cartel |
| Petals of the De'Unnero Lotus Pod Jhagar |
| The Daughters' Paraphernalia The Scarlet Masquerade |
| The Daughters' Artificiers Strings of Madness |
| Onyx Feline Artisan Cartel Tainted Vessels |
| Minions of Illith* You possess 2 clan slot permits |
|-------------------------------------------------------------------------|
3863h, 3920m, 4140e, 10p, elrxkb<>-|Safe|{26:24:-85708.44}

A torrent of poisonous fumes and sharp rocks hurtle at you from the south.
1815h, 3920m, 4140e, 10p, elrxkb<>-|Safe|{26:24:-85708.27}|Health: -2048|

(Jhagar): You say, "2048, out of 4146."


Ceren did around 49.3% of my max. I have life blessing, the usual ninjakari defs, no frost def, frost proofed cloak.
Celina2009-04-05 05:11:18
QUOTE (Shaddus Mes'ard @ Apr 5 2009, 12:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I don't know exactly what is going on, but I know Ceren's staffing does SUBSTANTIALLY more damage than Narsrims.

I'm not sure of the exact numbers, but we did the math, and Ceren's does around 45%+ of my max. Narsrims, maybe 25% if that. I would be willing to test this if you wish, but I really think there's something amiss.


Ceren also has raise staff and the champ staff, which Narsrim does not, so the comparison is a bad one.
Shaddus2009-04-05 05:14:02
QUOTE (Celina @ Apr 5 2009, 12:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Ceren also has raise staff and the champ staff, which Narsrim does not, so the comparison is a bad one.

Still, that shouldn't be enough to make him do half my life with one staff. Narsrim was in deluge, which is supposed to raise damage. When he hit me, it was for around 988. Just sayin'.
Estarra2009-04-05 05:16:34
QUOTE (daganev @ Apr 4 2009, 10:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
hmm, I was expecting you to say Support@Lusternia.com ...


Well, you can do that too!

Players have discussed mechanics about skills before and we haven't closed the thread. Maybe this is a legitimate bug (I haven't really investigated), so you could re-bug it and be more explicit. If it is a serious bug, you could bring it to an envoy and an envoy could post it on the envoy newsboard to bring it to the forefront of discussion.
Daganev2009-04-05 05:18:27
I wonder if asphyxiation damage reduction is bugged in general. It's one of those damage types that I don't think people think about too much.
Celina2009-04-05 05:24:10
QUOTE (Shaddus Mes'ard @ Apr 5 2009, 12:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Still, that shouldn't be enough to make him do half my life with one staff. Narsrim was in deluge, which is supposed to raise damage. When he hit me, it was for around 988. Just sayin'.


You're also an Aslaran with a cold resistance.

Maybe there is something wonky, but your tests don't really prove anything beyond you left a lot of variables out.
Rodngar2009-04-05 05:24:11
QUOTE (Estarra @ Apr 5 2009, 12:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The alleged bug was rejected as it was an envoy issue (as it was written), rather than a bug. I closed your thread because I felt you were being manipulative insofar that you were not discussing the issue but rather using the forums as a bully pulpit to get attention from the administration to relook at a bug. As you know, we ask that people not use the forums to report bugs.

I do not recall the alleged bug being bugged multiple times nor do I recall the envoys discussing it. Even if that's so, there are better ways to discuss the issue than being a drama queen by jumping up and down and telling the admin to stop ignoring you (which makes us roll our eyes and ignore you). That said, I would have no problem with you discussing the issue in a thread on the merits. Drop the drama and we may even discuss it with you.


Rewarding the behavior in question is a problem, but in the end, you should never turn your nose up at player feedback, player questions, or the concerns of a genuine customer just because he is personally addressing you or another Administrator capable of looking in to his bug report. You should never turn your nose up at feedback that isn't worded oh so daintily to meet the 'standards' of being constructive. Every customer has a personality, just like the Administration likes to tout that they do - which means every customer has their own tone, both verbal and written.

Instead of leaving the topic unlocked and simply posting what you just posted here in that thread, you locked a perfectly fine discussion over one line.

(I fully expect this post to be deleted, so why am I even typing it out?)
Rodngar2009-04-05 05:25:21
On the topic of damage, do you think maybe there is an issue with resistance DMPs and their amounts, or perhaps some form of armor stastics? Is there perhaps a cutoff just like there is supposed to be for speed, where some points just do not matter whatsoever?

QUOTE
I wonder if asphyxiation damage reduction is bugged in general. It's one of those damage types that I don't think people think about too much.


I have two asphyx damage attacks if you were a willing to test various situations with them. I notice that one of my asphyx damage-based skills does a LOT of damage - while there's very little DMP stopping that form of damage, it still seemed a little excessive on my end.
Estarra2009-04-05 05:36:55
QUOTE (Rodngar @ Apr 4 2009, 10:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Rewarding the behavior in question is a problem, but in the end, you should never turn your nose up at player feedback, player questions, or the concerns of a genuine customer just because he is personally addressing you or another Administrator capable of looking in to his bug report. You should never turn your nose up at feedback that isn't worded oh so daintily to meet the 'standards' of being constructive. Every customer has a personality, just like the Administration likes to tout that they do - which means every customer has their own tone, both verbal and written.


I fully reserve the right to ignore anything written on the forums for any reason. I go for periods when I purposefully don't read certain threads or forum sections or sometimes the entire forum. That's one of the reasons why we ask that people not use the forums to report bugs. If you have a customer service issue, you should use the proper channels. If you want to engage me on the forums, you should know I react negatively to certain tones and positively to others. That's what the forums are... an area for elective conversation.
Xenthos2009-04-05 05:42:41
QUOTE (Estarra @ Apr 5 2009, 01:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I fully reserve the right to ignore anything written on the forums for any reason. I go for periods when I purposefully don't read certain threads or forum sections or sometimes the entire forum. That's why we ask that people not rely on the forums to report bugs, it is not the proper channel. If you have a customer service issue, you should use the proper channels. If you want to engage me on the forums, you should know I react negatively to certain tones and positively to others. That's what the forums are... an area for elective conversation.

Well... since this is a thread about policy and you're mentioning customer service here along with the use of the forums, I'm going to /divert a little bit.

I actually believe that these forums are your primary Customer Service center. You have email (just like any other business), but email is generally for letters. It's not really good for back-and-forth discussion.

You have no actual phone lines, or phone support.

These forums are your phone lines, in essence. They're how your customers can directly speak with you and have a discussion, get some idea on how things are going, what they can expect, and interact with the people who are essentially in charge of their characters' fates. This is why I still believe that you need someone who is dedicated to being "forum support"-- not for bug reports (there are proper channels for those) or envoy matters (again, the same), but instead for speaking with your customers, keeping us engaged and feeling like we're being listened to by the People In Charge on all matters, not just a few limited subjects. Long periods when those people aren't reading the forums or are ignoring certain threads doesn't really help.

It's important for any business to have and maintain this sort of relationship with its customers.
Estarra2009-04-05 05:45:11
FYI, I briefly talked with some of the envoys, and specifically asked the Aquamancer envoy to investigate and report if there's anything at issue with the aqua staff.
Estarra2009-04-05 05:46:09
QUOTE (Xenthos @ Apr 4 2009, 10:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I actually believe that these forums are your primary Customer Service center. You have email (just like any other business), but email is generally for letters. It's not really good for back-and-forth discussion.


Sorry, I disagree.
Xenthos2009-04-05 05:53:30
QUOTE (Estarra @ Apr 5 2009, 01:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Sorry, I disagree.

I know you do. I'm not sure why, though. This is where your customers generally come. This is where they can actually hold a discussion with you (and other players). Email just doesn't afford the same ability. It's very easy to fire off a quick-response to an email and just never reconsider it again. Respond-and-forget. There's a much better ability to forge a positive relationship with your players here.
Rodngar2009-04-05 05:58:13
QUOTE (Estarra @ Apr 5 2009, 01:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Sorry, I disagree.


Responses like this are upsetting to players: they're short, negative, and explain nothing. I also find it odd that you spend your time closing topics like the one this thread was spawned from, while a ten page topic goes on in the Ideas forum griping about forging (plus spitballing ideas to fix it..) and you haven't given us anything, even a 'I'm listening'. I am not saying you should spend your time combing every post (you'd get nothing done in a day, good god that would be horrid), but you should probably put responses in topics that garner some true response or merit instead of ones that you yourself called grandstanding.

It's not my place to tell you how to do your job, but really, responses like this and previous ones I've gotten on the forums in public threads aren't all that positive. I've curbed my tone since the spat that spawned my signature, but I'll admit I'm still combative.

However, I'm glad you took a vested interest in investigating any problems with staffcasting from Aquas. With luck, maybe we'll find something that links up to a lot of unexplained damage problems?
Estarra2009-04-05 06:05:27
QUOTE (Xenthos @ Apr 4 2009, 10:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I know you do. I'm not sure why, though. This is where your customers generally come. This is where they can actually hold a discussion with you (and other players). Email just doesn't afford the same ability. It's very easy to fire off a quick-response to an email and just never reconsider it again. Respond-and-forget. There's a much better ability to forge a positive relationship with your players here.


I agree this is a space to forge a relationship with the players. I simply disagree that it is the primary place for customer service. I'm fine with forging a relationship, just so long as people know I can be sensitive, prickly, and bitchy. That's who I am! Other admin have other foibles. Because of the nature of forums, these foibles can come to the fore, and thus we have always maintained the forum relationship between players and admin. In other words, it is a place where we can all let our hair down. If you want the forums to be a more professional, customer service area, then I guaranty that I would not post many of the things that I do nor would we allow volunteer admin the freedom to post as they do nor would we allow the relatively lax moderation but rather be much more strict. Instead, we have always chosen this more casual and hopefully personal approach.