No way! It's cute!

If I remember correctly, I have only failed someone once, and it was genuinely because he had not bothered to find out the answers to relatively easy questions. I basically gave him the answers afterwards and invited him to try again when he felt he was ready.

There were a couple of times, though, when I didn't even finish someone's test because he obviously hadn't even read the ghelp file. I didn't feel bad then, because seriously, if you won't bother reading... why try?

I confess to being extremely sensitive to English usage, to the point that my first impression of a character often has something to do with the way they speak. Perhaps it's because much of my contact with the language has been in written instead of spoken form. I don't mind occasional mistakes in spelling, grammar or word usage - which seem to be the problems non-native speakers have the most trouble with - but things like using "i" instead of "I", your/you're mix-ups, "lol", "u" for "you" and so on bother me, because it implies that the person in question isn't really trying.

That being said, I've only failed people for guild tasks when English usage was actually pertinent to the matter, such as for library books which were too illegible to publish. Usually I tell them what the matter is and ask them to redo it, or to pick another task they might find easier. However, the language issue tends to influence me in deciding whether I'll offer to mentor or adopt a character, which I think is not unreasonable, as there is no obligation for one to mentor or adopt anyone.

In the end, it may come down to an "old grandpa" complex - if I can type properly, you could at least try.

I'll be perfectly honest, Kante. And this isn't said with any malice, or dislike. This is only my opinion.

I personally think you should have been disfavoured for that, be it by a divine or commune member. Because they don't fit what you think a member of Glomdoring is, you don't let them in? If this person was new, you should have welcomed them in with open arms, given them a tour of their new home, and molded them into the person they could be. The world isn't filled with english speaking members. Hell, I think more people probably speak chinese as a first language than english.

And if Lusternia lost someone because you turned them away, or if that person later goes to Serenwilde, and gains power, you will regret it because you have lost not only that little bit which might have turned the tide of battle, but an ally, perhaps a new family member. Someone just looking for their niche. That might have been you, years ago.

Thems the brakes.

I don't like the idea of failing people for guild tests. I've actually changed our beginning exams a lot in the Aquamancers from what they were originally. It use to be that our tests were just basic knowledge, which is well and good, but I'd rather have people use their brains instead of throwing up information. I've never had to deny access to Lady Isune's Order. The questions I use are to gage their understanding of Isune, not to withhold them from being in the Order.

It's a whole political mess when it comes to letting someone into your organization. You have to go over their past and figure out if the good will outweigh the bad in that decision. It's never an easy choice (And since I'm no longer an Aide to the Ambassador I don't have to worry about it anymore. I think if I were hard pressed to come up with a type of person I wouldn't want to let into Celest, it would probably be someone who is purposefully disruptive. I like to give people a second (or 3rd, 4th ect.) chance, but would make them work harder to get in the more times they leave the city.

I think it's harder to kick someone out than it is to let them in. I would rather make a hundred decisions to let someone into a place or position, than make one single decision of kicking someone out no matter what the circumstance.

Well, I guess there's a few separate issues here.

The point of examination is sorting. It can be a pretty loose sorting method (and for a lot of these things, it usually is), but the point kinda is that some people make it and some people don't.

The proportion of people who make it should be higher when 1) not making the cut reduces people's overall enjoyment of the game, and 2) when the examination is about as significant as social promotion in a public school.

Point 1 comes in pretty hard with real newbies changing orgs. The sorting in these situations really doesn't need to be any more than "Do you know what you're doing?" and "Are you sure enough that you won't be leaving again right away?" It also comes into play with non-novice, non-enemy people who're down on their luck and just looking to start over.

Point 2 encompasses most things up to GR2. The exam for GR1 -> GR2 in most guilds is basic orientation. It doesn't indicate anything more than you know how to play the game at a very basic level and you know your role in the world.

Past there? You bet there's a discrimination against stupid. Usually (not always, but usually) you can tell the difference between a non-native speaker and an idiot. There's generally some sort of objective criteria that advancement is based on. If they meet it, you are obligated to pass them. If they don't, you are not obligated to cut them any breaks.

Keep in mind, nobody refused to allow them in. He just refused to SPONSOR the person--which is legitimate. Being willing to sponsor someone is, so far as I understand it, giving your personal stamp of approval to someone. It's not as permanent or major a decision as adoption, of course, but I wouldn't say "I vouch for so and so" to someone who bothers me, on whatever grounds.

I'm pretty sure that's the whole point of the test. I don't think he did anything wrong. Besides, I'm sorry, but if someone's english is SO bad that you are unable to understand a word they're saying, then how is it wrong of you to fail them that test? There are certain logistics that you can't get around, and I think inability to legibly explain yourself is one of those things.

I've been mudding for ugh nearly 8 years now. In that time, as a city and guild leader and so on, I've come across a lot of people either very new to MUDs or quite young RL. Their spelling and grammer started out atrocious and their concept of RP was limited usually to the stock fantasy cliches.

I've also had the joy and pleasure of watching these people grow:

One kid started playing with clear enthusiasm. I was willing to invest the time, going over things he wrote and explaining my edits and used subtle nudges in interactions. For example, when he first started, he'd sit talking OOC about all kinds of stuff. Merely SHOWING him by DOING worked after a short time - he learned how to RP simply by being drawn into it with me, as I factored it into the basics (for example, in Aetolia, if you are inking a tattoo on a novice, if you "em motions for you to extend your arm for the next tattoo" the kid figures out "Oh, she wants me to do that"). About 6 months later, the kid is now a secretary, and a very devoted and motivated one. Granted, he still has trouble with language, but god, is his writing MILES above what it used to be, and he really adores the idea of who his character is.

Another boy started as a 12 year old who could barely type a sentence without lol or leetspeek, and is now a guildmaster IG - and RL is preparing for college...and he just aced his verbal SATs.

I could go on. Bottom line is there's potential there. I tend to not bother with the interview script, but instead have talks about the guild or city itself and the character's outlook, etc - that kind of approach can be really useful with someone who has issues with language, as they might just be having trouble expressing what they think.

Then again, there are idiots out there, but I only ever eject when the people are dumb in the argumentative, asinine sense ("I'm going to issue you if you don't pass me!" etc). My advice, in the end, is just to point them to someone else, if you aren't in the mood to deal, which you did, so all is good!

Nicely said, Sadhyra.

I'll definitely try and take all of that into consideration next time I get someone that seems a bit...dull. Who knows, maybe I can work with the kid.

Also, glad to see you back!

>_>

Gone? Who was gone!

I failed someone on a celestine test once. They had excellent punctuation and grammar - but they tried to do everything too fast and fell short on meeting requirements. I've had this happen so much in the Celestines, people come in on thursday and expect to be ordained and gr6 by tuesday afternoon and get very upset when we draw the line and say 'whoa there nelly, take a breather, you gotta be in the guild for 2 years before that can happen'.

I've always tried to encourage people to pull their noses out of the ghelps and go interact with others because you get a lot of alts I guess and they don't get very captivated by their new character because they are too busy studying and not having enough fun. And they don't seem to get that a lot of ordained celestines players aren't going to sit around and do a tap dance for their entertainment. Gotta make the magic happen on your own!

Good for you and them. Powergaming cheapens a lot of the things I would otherwise see as meaningful achievement (i.e. Demigod, but only because I have not reached it)

Pshaw, powergaming is a necessary facet of Lusternia. You can't confine yourself to the narrow, dogmatic view of the roleplayer; you must embrace... a more balanced view.

Personally I mould my roleplay around my powergaming, so I always have a perfect excuse to jump ship to a new guild/org. Why, I once managed to get kicked out of the place I was planning to quit, and propelled into the place I planned on joining...

I tend to not feel bad when I fail someone, why? Because if I fail them it's because they deserve it, recently I failed my own Protege, he was trying to do part of the GR1 Test doohickey (we can have them done in differant stages, dunno if that's replicated elsewhere) where he had to read a book and then comment on it, he decided to try and wing it (I did, too, but then I can actually do that well ) and failed miserably, needless to say I was pretty annoyed at him, I'm his Mentor, if he needs help he can come to me, he has all the stuff he needs to do pretty damned well and he still managed to screw it up (I'm ranting here, lemme alone )

Though I'll admit using the authority to fail him made me feel good

Failing people isn't a bad thing. Especially if they don't know how to skim a book well... er I mean.. I'm sure he'll do better next time.

He'd read the book properly, it was just a crap book, coupled with him putting in zero effort beforehand meant that there was really no point in him doing that part of the test, he will hopefully get a better book and I gave him a good hiding so he should try better, too

He could have chosen any book he wanted to read! Beat him with a wet noodle until he cracks down and works hard.

I know, and I wouldn't use a wet noodle, I'd throw novices at him.