don't you two both have the exact same avatar icon in both forums?? oh well...

I think it's the combination of two things that make combat less fun in Lusternia. My point (that you get nothing for it, and can potentially lose plenty), and the point several others have made (combat in lusternia is COMPLEX, there are a TON of afflictions you have to know and a ton of ways to lock someone out, for every class).

What this means is that aside from the level issue, starting combat is frustrating and difficult and throws a lot of people off of it. We don't get new and decent combatants very often (outside of alts) so you end up fighting the same people over and over again.

This snowballs into another issue: most of the time, you're not fighting the character. You're fighting the player's system. Because combat is so complex, most people just buy systems. So again, you're just fighting the same thing over and over...

On a side note: this is why I'll hesitate to release my system when it's finished.

Finally, as a note for all of you who think you can't build your own systems: you can. The first step of getting started is exponentially harder than the rest of the process. My first couple of scripts took me weeks to write, but now I have a fully capable system that checks for curing abilities and affliction locks with timers and so forth, that simply lacks trigger data. It's really not that hard, and there is a lot of help around to get you over the first hurdle.

This is my perspective on the system issue. If you understand Algebra and Flow charts, you can make your own system. Yes it takes time to create one, but not as much time as some people may think. Besides, making your own system means you can fix a problem before the next time you experience what caused it again.

System building is more tedious then it is hard, imo.

Umm no? My avatar is a pink bug here and winged Impish thing in Aet's forums (ie something that looks like each char?). Might want to get your eyes (or your ISP?) checked.

@ combat - completely agreed with IRE's absurd need to add 50 million affs and mechanics for every new guild that comes out. Drowning people in afflictions does NOT make combat better. It just makes it more complex and inaccessable.

Depends on how hard you make it for yourself.

I'm taking the time to make my system compatible with all of the IRE games, so that's a lot of time and effort modularizing that most people won't need to do.

A basic healing system with priority curing is actually fairly simple.

I think the idea is that most people will assume the number of credits they need to buy is proportional to the number of afflictions and mechanics in the game...

Algebra makes me cry. Tried taking it three separate times in college and had to drop all three times about a quarter of the way through the semester when I realized I was going to have to make a perfect score on every quiz, test, and assignment just to get a D in the class. Math is my mortal enemy.

I use Ethelon's system and I love him to absolute pieces for the fact that it's so easy to use and that he has never once not answered any stupid question I've had about it.

Not that I fight with it all that much. Mostly just defending and hunting. Everyone says that if I practice though, I won't feel like I'm about to pass out when I get into fights, so maybe I'll start sparring more or something and then it'll come into more use than I'm giving it now. Maybe. I keep thinking I might

I'm going to put in one more thing that often keeps me shying away from trying to become a 'fighter.' Assuming that I decide to put put with the shaking and sweating and generally feeling retarded I mentioned before, there's also this other kind of nebulous worry. See, I get the impression, from the forums and from the OOC clans I'm in that folks who really care about combat really care about combat. They take it SO seriously. They get mad when fights don't go their way. They seem to take all sorts of things personally that I honestly don't take personally at all because to me it's just a game and who cares if someone raided your whatever while you were asleep? I really don't think I'd make a good combatant because I can't see myself getting all worked up over some of the things that the combatants always seem so worked up over. There's so many other things to enjoy about the game that I think I'd just say, "Whatever." and start working on something more fun.

But then, maybe that's because to me, right now, fighting isn't really fun (except in big group situations where I play some specific role I understand) and other things are so I don't see the point. Maybe, if I became a fighter, then I'd see the point and be all worked up too. But then, do I want to get all worked up over the fact that I happened to be overwhelmed by opposing forces during some event or that someone kept kicking things and running? I kind of like my, "Oh well" attitude regarding those sorts of things. I don't want to start thinking in terms of 'I win-you lose' in a game where there's no winning and losing, cause it just can't be fun and I play to have fun.


eta: and that's not to say that fighters don't play to have fun/don't have fun/aren't fun/are mean/whatever. This is just me expressing my impression of serious fighting/fighters and how it may apply to myself.

While it can provoke mega e-rage, that's a side effect of why so many people like it- it's very engrossing and sucks you in. You know those 'PK jitters' you get when you fight? Your fingers are shaking, you're trying to remember what you're supposed to be doing, having trouble typing out your commands and aliases? Those are rare for me, now, but I miss them so, so much. Jitters are a sign that you're really into it.

It's true that there are some people like this (not going to name names) but they're definitely in the minority. The vast majority of the people in Bellator, DoK, Jhagar, etc don't take it overly seriously even if we do talk about it a lot. Even Narsrim is pretty laidback these days!

Incidentally, I still do feel that adrenaline surge occasionally when I've set up a perfect crucify.

To be honest, I think you have to ask your original question differently:

"Of those people who used to be involved in combat a lot, where have they gone, and what do they do now and why arn't they playing anymore?"

That's ulitmately your real question.

Wierd, when I first saw you post something, I assumed you came from Aetolia because I recognized your avatar. Guess it's just being/was shared.

Yes, well, I've never been one to object to a topic drifting off into something more interesting.

Very weird. Maybe you are referring to my forum profile pic, in which care you, Sir, as a stalker.

More on topic: I still get PK jitters. I've been playing one char for like...6 RL years and I still get that twitchy adrenalin rush during some fights. Love it.

rofl me too

Edit: to go along with Sham's thread though he is right. Compared to how Lusternia once was, fighting has become almost nonexistent.

bring griefing back!

chop down trees!

kill a guildhall!

jump innocents just to rile people up!

This thread has helped me see that the cost of combat is so high I should be charging for my combat system. Well, maybe.

I have been saying for a very long time, though, that we seriously need to stop adding so many new afflictions to the game. New mechanics and conflict systems are okay, but afflictions make it exponentially more difficult to enter the world of combat.

I was working on the trees! I just don't have the ability to feel OK about jumping people.

Shampoo said this, and I didn't really agree until a few weeks later, at which point I pretty much left for WoW.

I still come around, but I come around at an off-peak time for the BT, so I pretty much log on, check GWHO for someone who I could actually teach, and...usually quit right away. Because of Ethereal mechanics, raiding Etherwilde as a druid is pretty laughable, and because of RP constraints, I can't go get my jollies at Celest's expense. I could harass a village, but why? There's no fun in fighting the Seren horde now that the Seren horde comes fully equipped with monks and the solution to multiple monks with pocket aeon whores is to run away. Village revolts are fun, but I miss a lot of them when there's not enough in the game to keep me there between revolts.

Yeah, I wish village revolts were scheduled or something so that I could know when to log in to catch one and so it isn't luck of the draw with regard to who has more people online for it. That wouldn't really make very much sense, though.