Narsrim2009-06-05 20:06:52
QUOTE
Report #186 Skillset: Aquamancy Skill: Flood
Guild: Aquamancers Status: Rejected May 2009
Problem: Flooding a natural tree environment still permits wisp, vines, raise cudgel, climb up, etc to be used.
Solution #1: Aquamancer flooding should overwhelm any natural trees killing them because of the harsh change of environment. All abilities that require trees would not function (wisp, vines, raise cudgel, climb up, etc). Dryad trees, because of their magical nature, would not be subject to this penalty. This would function mechanically the same as Geomancer defoliation.
Solution #2: Under the flood skill, create a new syntax (WIPEOUT?) that would simultaneously flood and overwhelm any natural trees killing them because of the harsh change of environment. All abilities that require trees would not function (wisp, vines, raise cudgel, climb up, etc.). Dryad trees, because of their magical nature, would not be subject to this penalty. This would function mechanically the same as Geomancer defoliation.
Solution #3: Provide a solution here.
Furies' Decision:
Defoliation doesn't do these things as claimed in the report. If there is a desire for a generic mage skill to hinder these abilities, this can be envoyed separately.
Guild: Aquamancers Status: Rejected May 2009
Problem: Flooding a natural tree environment still permits wisp, vines, raise cudgel, climb up, etc to be used.
Solution #1: Aquamancer flooding should overwhelm any natural trees killing them because of the harsh change of environment. All abilities that require trees would not function (wisp, vines, raise cudgel, climb up, etc). Dryad trees, because of their magical nature, would not be subject to this penalty. This would function mechanically the same as Geomancer defoliation.
Solution #2: Under the flood skill, create a new syntax (WIPEOUT?) that would simultaneously flood and overwhelm any natural trees killing them because of the harsh change of environment. All abilities that require trees would not function (wisp, vines, raise cudgel, climb up, etc.). Dryad trees, because of their magical nature, would not be subject to this penalty. This would function mechanically the same as Geomancer defoliation.
Solution #3: Provide a solution here.
Furies' Decision:
Defoliation doesn't do these things as claimed in the report. If there is a desire for a generic mage skill to hinder these abilities, this can be envoyed separately.
QUOTE
# Taint Twist the land with death.
* Gifted 25%
* Syntax: GEOCAST TAINT
GEOCAST FORCETAINT
GEOCAST DEFOLIATION
Power: 1 (Megalith of Doom)
You may temporarily taint almost any environment. If a location is
currently the demesne of any druid or mage, you can FORCE it and break
the meld in that location. Note that your magics require enough
surrounding tainted death around you that many of your spells will not
work in a tainted forest. You may cause DEFOLIATION in tainted forests
to kill off the nearby trees.
* Gifted 25%
* Syntax: GEOCAST TAINT
GEOCAST FORCETAINT
GEOCAST DEFOLIATION
Power: 1 (Megalith of Doom)
You may temporarily taint almost any environment. If a location is
currently the demesne of any druid or mage, you can FORCE it and break
the meld in that location. Note that your magics require enough
surrounding tainted death around you that many of your spells will not
work in a tainted forest. You may cause DEFOLIATION in tainted forests
to kill off the nearby trees.
People often wonder why I get so angry and fussy. This is a great example of why. Zynna envoyed for Aquamancer flooding to kill off trees similar to how the Geomancer meld does. It was clearly explained. It was clearly defined. And we get a response back that makes zero sense and clearly ended up being a decision over semantics whereas the content of the report itself was ignored.
How disappointing. All of the envoys supported this report because it needs changed for Celest to have a fair shot at fighting forests. I swear.
Shaddus2009-06-05 20:10:36
QUOTE (Narsrim @ Jun 5 2009, 03:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
People often wonder why I get so angry and fussy. This is a great example of why. Zynna envoyed for Aquamancer flooding to kill off trees similar to how the Geomancer meld does. It was clearly explained. It was clearly defined. And we get a response back that makes zero sense and clearly ended up being a decision over semantics whereas the content of the report itself was ignored.
How disappointing.
How disappointing.
I agree 100 %. But keep in mind what these skills do. Defoliation only works to remove forests from tainted lands, IE Wyrden (technically, sorry Xenthos! ). It doesn't remove trees magical or not, it only removes the forest from the taint. I think perhaps if defoliation removed saplings, you might have a leg to stand on.
Narsrim2009-06-05 20:11:26
And for whoever made this decision, I really don't see how there could have been any confusion. Ceren even attempted to clear up any semantic concerns:
---:
The geomancer's special syntax (defoliation) only works in wyrdforest actually. You taint like normal in regular hartstone forest and it destroys the trees. Could be misremembering, but I think defoliate came about because before the wyrd, glomdoring had tainted forest and it was silly to taint tainted forest. So special syntax not really necessary, but I approve of this either way.
---:
The geomancer's special syntax (defoliation) only works in wyrdforest actually. You taint like normal in regular hartstone forest and it destroys the trees. Could be misremembering, but I think defoliate came about because before the wyrd, glomdoring had tainted forest and it was silly to taint tainted forest. So special syntax not really necessary, but I approve of this either way.
Narsrim2009-06-05 20:12:57
QUOTE (Shaddus Mes'ard @ Jun 5 2009, 04:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I agree 100 %. But keep in mind what these skills do. Defoliation only works to remove forests from tainted lands, IE Wyrden (technically, sorry Xenthos! ). It doesn't remove trees magical or not, it only removes the forest from the taint. I think perhaps if defoliation removed saplings, you might have a leg to stand on.
No. Flooding removes forests. It always has. The problem is that flooding doesn't remove trees. Both taint and defoliation remove forests AND remove trees. No tree ability (wisp, vines, sap, etc) works in taint. They do work in flooded areas.
EDIT:
The response doesn't even make any damn sense. Why would geomancers want/need a universal skill to block trees when ALREADY do? It only applies to Aquamancers, and that is why the change was requested.
Narsrim2009-06-05 20:14:06
What exactly should Zynna do? Resubmit the exact same report removing the last line about defoliation? I mean seriously, is that what it is going to take? Retarded. Utterly retarded.
Shaddus2009-06-05 20:18:55
QUOTE (Narsrim @ Jun 5 2009, 03:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
No. Flooding removes forests. It always has. The problem is that flooding doesn't remove trees. Both taint and defoliation remove forests AND remove trees. No tree ability (wisp, vines, sap, etc) works in taint. They do work in flooded areas.
I'm not sure you understand. If a room is forested with either kind and has a sapling, and you use defoliation, does it remove the sapling?
That's what the Furies are saying, because it doesn't so far as I know. Zynna wrote it like defoliation does, and Aquamancy needs a matching skill. When it comes down to it, the only way this would have been viable is if defoliation removed trees, which it doesn't. It changes wyrden into taint (or if you will, tainted forest into tainted plain.)
Personally, I'm all for saying that dryads or whatever can't be in water or taint period, thus removing this problem.
Narsrim2009-06-05 20:24:29
QUOTE (Shaddus Mes'ard @ Jun 5 2009, 04:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm not sure you understand. If a room is forested with either kind and has a sapling, and you use defoliation, does it remove the sapling?
That's what the Furies are saying, because it doesn't so far as I know. Zynna wrote it like defoliation does, and Aquamancy needs a matching skill. When it comes down to it, the only way this would have been viable is if defoliation removed trees, which it doesn't. It changes wyrden into taint (or if you will, tainted forest into tainted plain.)
Personally, I'm all for saying that dryads or whatever can't be in water or taint period, thus removing this problem.
That's what the Furies are saying, because it doesn't so far as I know. Zynna wrote it like defoliation does, and Aquamancy needs a matching skill. When it comes down to it, the only way this would have been viable is if defoliation removed trees, which it doesn't. It changes wyrden into taint (or if you will, tainted forest into tainted plain.)
Personally, I'm all for saying that dryads or whatever can't be in water or taint period, thus removing this problem.
You don't what you are talking about. This has nothing to do with saplings.
Trees can be present in any environment. If you can climb into trees, they exist. If you go to a room that is the garden environment, you will note you can climb in to trees. Any ability that requires trees will function in this room (wisp, vines, etc). If this is room is tainted, the trees disappear. You can no longer climb into them. You can no longer use the above abilities. If the room is flooded, you CAN still use those abilities.
A sapling is a special sort of tree (note the word tree as in singular not plural) that has nothing to do with the environment other that it requires a forest environment in order to be cast. Make sense?
Shaddus2009-06-05 20:33:44
I stand corrected and humbled by your abject knowledge. Pray tell, how would we solve this? Perhaps remove defoliation instead?
Narsrim2009-06-05 20:34:42
QUOTE (Shaddus Mes'ard @ Jun 5 2009, 04:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I stand corrected and humbled by your abject knowledge. Pray tell, how would we solve this? Perhaps remove defoliation instead?
Heh. Flooding just needs to remove trees (the environment not saplings) like tainting and defoliation does. That's all we need. It should not be possible to wisp, vines, sap, etc. in an Aquamancer demesne. All of the Envoys understood this point, and they agreed to it. I'm not sure what the hiccup was.
Furien2009-06-05 21:13:21
Maybe they just misunderstood? I mean, even when you underlined the important parts I was still thinking about saplings for a few moments, and then I saw Ceren's defoliation note and thought 'So wait, they can remove wyrd saplings?'. I didn't know they used to be 'tainted forest'.
Charune2009-06-05 21:23:30
What an odd thread.
I received Zynna's message early this afternoon regarding it and messaged her back that it will be looked into promptly. This is the correct procedure to have it handled (or an envoy post). Thank you Zynna!
I received Zynna's message early this afternoon regarding it and messaged her back that it will be looked into promptly. This is the correct procedure to have it handled (or an envoy post). Thank you Zynna!
Unknown2009-06-05 21:32:20
QUOTE (Charune @ Jun 5 2009, 05:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
What an odd thread.
I received Zynna's message early this afternoon regarding it and messaged her back that it will be looked into promptly. This is the correct procedure to have it handled (or an envoy post). Thank you Zynna!
I received Zynna's message early this afternoon regarding it and messaged her back that it will be looked into promptly. This is the correct procedure to have it handled (or an envoy post). Thank you Zynna!
But flaming people one the forums is so much more fun.
Munsia2009-06-05 21:35:27
QUOTE (Kialkarkea @ Jun 5 2009, 05:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
But flaming people one the forums is so much more fun.
Furies != People
They are adminsUnknown2009-06-05 21:37:43
Yeah, I forgot that the gods were just cleverly designed AI myself.
Xenthos2009-06-05 21:38:45
QUOTE (Sojiro @ Jun 5 2009, 05:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yeah, I forgot that the gods were just cleverly designed AI myself.
If you try very hard, you can make Charune break down into replies consisting only of ones and zeroes.
Munsia2009-06-05 21:39:10
QUOTE (Xenthos @ Jun 5 2009, 05:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If you try very hard, you can make Charune break down into replies consisting only of ones and zeroes.
QFT
I've seen it.
Shaddus2009-06-05 21:48:58
QUOTE (Charune @ Jun 5 2009, 04:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
What an odd thread.
I received Zynna's message early this afternoon regarding it and messaged her back that it will be looked into promptly. This is the correct procedure to have it handled (or an envoy post). Thank you Zynna!
I received Zynna's message early this afternoon regarding it and messaged her back that it will be looked into promptly. This is the correct procedure to have it handled (or an envoy post). Thank you Zynna!
Your logic has no place here.
Estarra2009-06-05 21:55:14
Obviously, posting inflammatory threads like this is the wrong way to get your point across. Take lessons from Zynna!
Nothing more to see here, move along!
Nothing more to see here, move along!
