Don't post complaints about charites returns on the forums. If you wish something addressed, send a msg to the charites.

It is impossible for us to keep track of all that happens on the forums, so it is neither efficient nor is it respectful to the individuals who reviewed your design. Yes, we are all human and we make mistakes, but the proper way to address this is to msg the charites, who will be able to address the issue and post clarification if it is a recurring problem.

In the mean time, do not post these things here.

You are:
suffering from severe toxic shock.


It's not that easy, being green.

was the turtle a ninja?

Fair enough. Will clear old posts too.

Veracruz buying systems and learning skills when he owes me 100 credits.
I know I'll never see them back, but at least I can let everyone know.

Pathetic.

I'll add to that. It is my understanding --- still owes someone credits in game. Upwards of 400 credits. About enough real money for small claims court.

http://calbar.ca.gov/state/calbar/calbar_g...1&id=2175#1

Name and shame fellas, name and shame.

I doubt anyone could actually take such a claim to court, though, as virtual assets — which, despite "belonging" to one's character, are still the property of IRE in actual fact (a major complication) — remain a notorious grey area in today's legal system. Also, I believe IRE's EULA clearly denotes that if you loan something out and cannot recover it, them's the brakes. (On the other hand, EULAs are not ironclad by any means; if portions of them are found to violate consumer rights laws, those portions will not be legally binding, whether the customer signed the agreement or not.)

Anyway, I'm sure most people here are well aware of these factoids, but I'm leading up to a point: I never loan out assets I'm unwilling to part with, especially to friends or acquaintances. It is easier to tell people "no" in a kind manner and explain your policy than to suffer the pain of large, unrepaid loans and ruined relationships.

I don't "loan" credits (and certainly would never even consider loaning upwards of 20 or so) for this very reason. It's too easy for people to vanish or simply decide not to pay someone back. Similarly, I'd rather just save up and buy the credits rather than risk having my name dragged through the mud if I can't pay on time. It just seems like an all-around bad idea in most cases, regardless of credibility.

EDIT: It should also be noted that people who are missing their loaned out credits should strongly resist the urge to throw good money (or, say, vast sums of power) after bad.

I'm almost 2/3rds of the way through law school

My momma always told me, don't lend anyone anything unless you don't need to get it back.

Edit: With sufficient proof, you could take it to court, since agreements that try to set themselves up as being above/beyond the law (such as, "IRE owns the assets you buy from them") are almost always invalidated. It would depend who you were filing suit against though, if another player breached a contact with you it would be different than if IRE breached a contract with you because even though the idea that IRE owns the assets and you have no recourse possible is far fetched, you did still agree to their terms in theory. So, the IRE disclaimer does more for IRE than it would for a player of IRE trying to use it to his own advantage.

Agreed. The point (which I'll ask my associate about the how these cases are treated in small claims next we meet) was to ensure that the victim has recourse against the scofflaw, not IRE.

Ultimately, knowing this is an option, in my view, increases the likelihood the borrower and lender act in good faith.

Unless one party is outside the US. Then you are on your own.

This is fun But in relation to what Kaalak was saying, you can't get anywhere without evidence. If IRE is smart they would resist giving out logs of the agreement because that would open the door to them involving themselves in player disputes of this type. And meanwhile, a small claims court would have trouble getting evidence in because you probably live nowhere near each other, so it would be really difficult even to do something on the level of showing up before Judge Judy and pointing the finger at each other.

Sometimes you just have to cut your losses Or hire people to assassinate him on prime over and over until he ragequits

I agree.

In regards to sufficient proof, Jello in your opinion what would be necessary?

I'd imagine the bank statement of purchase of credits to IRE.
Documented communication from the borrower to lender
-This could be problematic. If you just have 'logs' I could easily see a court just not believing it unless you somehow got IRE to release logs and even then I'm not sure you could and how relevant they could be. I think you'd have much better luck if you have documented emails from the borrower. Thoughts?
Possibly documented in game messages of credit transfer? (*shrug*)
Next you'd have to get all the documents notarized (at least that's my understanding)
And of course identify the full name and address of the scofflaw in question. But this is the internet and that's really not hard.

The Force is strong in this one.

Power costs, I hate you so

Well, I know that the statute of frauds requires written evidence only in excess of $500, unless there's an exception I'm forgetting that would apply to here. But that doesn't mean that having the bank statements etc. wouldn't help, and quite a bit. But I agree that showing the exchange itself would be the most difficult part, since the guy who got the credits probably won't fess up to it.

It also might not fall into your typical breach of contract claim because it sounds like he was just giving him the credits and not asking for anything in return (besides getting an equal amount back), so it would have to go through an unjust enrichment or fraud approach unless he was supposed to give them back with interest.

Also, I read that small claims webpage and it says "Lawyers are not allowed in small claims court", which made me . That explains why they never tell us anything about small claims, I went in expecting there to be a class on it or something.

Edit: In conclusion, I get an A because I can't answer you question

Let's move this to another thread and out of twits starting now (I'll let Felicia's post go since she's still typing it.)

Indeed, the acquisition of evidentiary documentation and whether or not said documentation (game logs, in this case) would even be considered reliable enough for admission as evidence simply compound the main problem, that being the uncertain nature of virtual assets in today's legal system.

Even disregarding all of those obstacles, as has been pointed out, if the delinquent loanee is from a different country, you're probably up the primordial estuary without a means of locomotion anyway.

In my opinion, a player-run, in-game organization that witnesses and documents loans might be helpful. If someone defaults on a witnessed and documented loan, the word of such an organization would carry far more weight than "he said, she said" situations, thus making it much easier to "punish" the delinquent by marking them as untrustworthy in the public eye.

Of course, the best policy is to simply not agree to large loans.

EDIT: Good eye, Shiri, and thank you.

Edit: Missed the Shiribot. Twit: I'm home early, time to start playing!

Found a fun way of RPing that I hadn't thought of.

Not letting IC things get me OOC anymore. You can't instigate me, instigator!

Starting to love Lusternia again! More Cocania please!

Wishing she had a reason to go merian again. Fix merian!