How about you just build on Lusternian Systems of Justice and go from there?
I'm sure there is info hidden around Celest about these sorts of things.

Okay, then I never had time to explore extrinsic evidence to impeach the witnesses called at my trial. We should have a discovery phase for that, if we want to start there.


This is Celest's justice system. Old priest at a park handing out life lessons (damnations).

EDIT: But really, who wants a RP judicial system? Isn't this game complicated enough as it is? Are we going to give out Lusternian bar exams now?

More, please.

Clearly Jozan you should move for a mistrial.

Is there an Appeals Court?

Appeal to what? The highest court in the land is Thiodone.

Of course, you're all assuming that this system was INTENDED to be fair. This fits pretty well with the already mentioned witch hunting periods of Europe. Evidence or not, if the Church wants you out/branded/dead, that's how it's going to be.

True. Doesn't mean it can't be improved upon.

I thought you were all for it, Jozan?

I don't mind a bit that I'm damned. I don't identify myself by the city I live in, just the people who I hang out with (and many of them are enemies of Celest). I've mentioned earlier on other threads, that I'm not surprised I was damned. I'm conscious of the attitude I take towards others who piss me off.

It's just a flawed system. After a few people on the forums pointed out the issues, I agreed with them that those things should probably be looked at. I could care less about my case and overturning a ruling. Why bother? Damnation hasn't affected my gameplaying since it happened, except for the people asking what happened every 5 min to the point I shut off all my channels.

I don't like how you can't defend yourself, really. Whether or not you think Jozan is guilty, he should have been able to have someone defend/testify against him. Personally, I'm surprised that people are shocked with a dogmatic ruling.

Who says trials have to be fair? Sure, it might be a lovely concept IRL, but things are vastly different in-game.

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More seriously... In most future cases there will be fair opportunity given to both sides.

In a response to a few of the posts made previously, I think that making an extensive judicial system would be pointless. Lusternia is a game. I'm not arguing "games are supposed to be fun", I'm arguing "games do not try to replicate the real world, most of the time". Since every city is arguably very small in-game, and people don't have the enormous ability and extent to do as many things as they could in real life (with the exception of roleplay - and I know very few people that would willingly put themselves into trouble through roleplay) so laws cannot be as incredibly complex as they would be in real life. Most laws made by cities in IRE games only cover things that you are actually able to do mechanics-wise. The only exception I know of is that someone in Imperian was once enemied to a city for sexual assault, or something like that. But that kind of thing would have huge consequences OOCly unless the other person consented to it in an OOC manner.

Basically, if you're going to make laws that govern in-depth roleplay, expect them to be broken very rarely, because a lot of people wouldn't roleplay it if it got them in trouble. Like, let's have an example, public urination. Let's say there's a law against it. You wouldn't see people whipping out their twig & berries and taking a piss on a wall in front of other people in mechanics, and it certainly wouldn't happen in roleplay 99% of the time. So why bother making a law about it?

In conclusion, keep the laws to things that can happen with mechanics. If I were a ruler of a city I would probably make some kind of laws like this:

You would have four status levels: citizen, guest, non-citizen, enemy. A citizen is anyone who is part of the city. A guest is formally allied to the city, on friendly terms with it, etc. A non-citizen is anyone else.

Three major crimes: murder, grand theft, treason.

Minor crimes: harassment, assault, petty theft, use of hostile-affilated skills/abilities (like using evil magic in a good city), conspiracy to commit a crime, over-excessive public display of affection (snuggling, kissing, pouncing, etc, a whole bunch of times and being an annoyance) and a bunch of other things I couldn't think of right now.

The offenses would be punished according to status levels. The major crimes would result in expulsion to the city if citizen, enemy status for guest, and enemy status for the other two. The minor crimes would have disfavours for citizens (expulsion and fines if done too much), removal of guest status for guests (enemy status and fines if done too much), and enemy status and fines for non-citizen and guest.

For anything not on that list, it can be deemed an offense by a ruling member of the city, and punished as a major or minor crime.


That's honestly all you need for city laws and that covers almost all mechanics, and making a huge, drawn out judicial system would just be a waste of time, because people wouldn't want to deliberately roleplay themselves into trouble. It's not something I support, but I'm just telling the truth here. Nobody wants to suffer semi-OOC consequences (removal of skills, loss of gold, status, etc) because of RP actions, in my experience across all four IRE muds.

lol, I think most of us just wanted a chance to actively cross-examine the witnesses/time to prepare on both sides as opposed to Ilyarin leading the discussion and springing the trial on someone at 6AM their time. I know that I can be an a-hole to twits I don't like. I don't have a problem with the city telling me they don't like that through this venue.

I'm also fine with the RP punishments, as long as they don't touch my credits/artis/skills/levels we're cool.

However, when something more serious is brought up, the defense is severely hampered. They know nothing about the trial, while the prosecution is actively seeking leads on the criminal/civil trial. During the trial, there isn't much of an opportunity to press your accusers, mostly just rebuttals against witnesses the judge brings to the courtroom stand. How convenient.

Essentially, the "trial" was a sham.

So when are you gonna Damn Munsia?

lol, Narsrim should be next. He's the one who engineered the selling of New Celest.

But seriously, we shouldn't run around damning people. Ilyarin says that raises morale, but when have witch hunts and inquisitions raised morale?

Did someone just use the words "in conclusion" in a forum post?

Witch hunts always raise moral. Of everyone but the minority who are hunted.

Pretty sure it's just hysteria not morale that gets raised. Or they just call it the Red Scare because everyone was happy.

I'm sorry but I try to be as clear and precise as possible when I'm posting.