Not helpful!

Yep, I used to be one of them. I don't have as much time as I would like to show all the novices the ropes like I used to. But I still see a problem-- either the novice has to read a help file, or spend at least 20 minutes with another player (if they are quick learners) personally teaching them everything in that help file. The problem still remains-- even to begin, you have to go through considerable effort.

Part of the reason the Collegiums were implemented was so that there would be a place for newbies to get help when no one in their guild was around. The help files exist so that someone like me, a Serenguard, could quickly read through CGHELP EJEI and be able to help a Shofangi novice through their beginning lessons if they needed help. As much as I kinda don't like to admit it, the collegium system is great for that.

But, as stated earlier, you either have to read through the help file yourself or have someone else read it and teach it to you.

This is why the moondancer thing worked, cause the people allowed to teach knew how to.



I remember emoting throwing rocks at them after they learned to invoke circle to demonstrate, or them kill a weevil to learn how to nature curse.



There is a difference between someone helping you do something and just reading off a list. I work in a help desk, every day I have people calling because they need more help than reading a web page can offer. The personal time spent also gives a feeling that people care about them and want to help them, there is an automated troubleshooting system in place while it helps some people, the vast majority will complain long and hard about how unhelpful it is and that you need a human to really help you sometimes.



Yes, the collegiums at base allow novices to learn some basics though nothing specific to their guild and there is no bashing related quest. (Or there might be, I can't remember the other orgs ones)

The thing is that they are a back up in my eyes, if a guilds population is dwindling then the commune/city can help train when no one is around. But when you have able people around to teach then they should be spanked for not doing so. Teaching help scrolls should be viewed as backups and for novices who indicate they would rather learn on their own.


Wow... all point of viewy... I've missed the forums

Someone give me advice!

If you are a Celestine then teach them, introduce them to your angel if they seem receptive to a bit of light rp maybe find a "nice spot" to teach at. (never know, a god might help you out if they like) Go through the skills they should be focusing on and then send them off to the college or newton.

If you aren't then you can decide, you could lead them around and walk them through everything by following the scroll yourself or get them to read the scroll.

I am not against using cghelps when there is no one around who can actually help the novice, I am against using them when someone is around that could help them instead.

A surprising number of novices seem to prefer using the scroll. I strongly advise my undersecs to let the novice decide which way it should go. Always offer, never pressure. Be whatever this particular novice needs.

You're not?!?!

Weren't, perhaps?

As a returning member I'll add my two cents. Things have changed quite a bit since I played, (4 years +/-) especially as a novice. I will say I do like the collegium as it does give the novice a nice intro to their city/commune's lore and the like (Only really participated in Glom's but from the others that I've viewed (celest being an exception) they seem well). However, what I do NOT like at all is the lack of interaction that I've recieved. Part of this is due to the times I make my novices (late night, no one on really.) Celest has proven poor so far, having made 2 novices that go absolutely NO greeting or intro whatsoever with atleast 5+ people on Prime and a few others in other planes.
While my personal style is to be self sufficient and using the scrolls over asking for help (tbh I am a bit shy to ask for help, odd I know eh?) I would like to have someone pipe up and greet me, request me come to the nexus and have a hands on training. I like that, having a friendly face (though unknown) greeting me, helping me learn new skills and be a bit annoying by asking if I have questions (though my usual reply is no since I don't I'm an alt (should remedy that and act a bit more lost..hrmm.)). It shows me that someone CARES. I think that's what many new members would like, to know that someone does have an interest in their well being and to know that their is a friendly face to talk to. Having someone say "read this" is not caring nor friendly in my honest opinion. In fact, I find it damn impersonal. Novices should be given some sort of attention, even during raiding. Is it so much to ask for just one person?
This is one reason why I usually favor Glom over all other places. They have always shown me a family equsce attitude, always had someone poking their nose in my directions wondering how I am. I've even had two GM's ask if I'm well. I haven't had that sort of thing happen to me in any other place, except Mag. While Serenwilde has been friendly folk, there have been times were it was too friendly. That can be a little scary to anyone ( I don't trust people who smile too much tis weird -peer-). I know finding the "just right" of being friendly just stern or whatever kind of character you are is somewhat hard, but I have know several people who know that balance (would try to name some but gods my memory fails me).
I agree with lendren that it should also be a choice. Some people do like to learn by themselves, they learn better that way but I've always noticed those folk are the alts of vets. The ones who like the hands on learning are usually new to lusternia or muds in general.
This problem is player base one. People NEED to see that novices are important again, as it seems to me that they just aren't caring about them any more. I know teaching is a frightening experience, trust me I've done it myself numerous times but it can be fun and a learning one. If you're unsure of how to teach, ask. Don't most guilds say that the only stupid/silly question is the one unasked? You should remember this even after novicehood, as it applies to all. I think that there should be a program in guilds to do a "hands on" teaching of how to teach novices. Kind of like the Student Teacher programs, where a college student trying to become a teacher actually goes into a class room to learn from a current teacher just how the inner workings work. That way people aren't so afraid to teach when the time comes and no ones around to teach but them.

Some would agree, others would judge your question and then punish you if they do not think you should be questioning such things.

Another thing might be the treatment low ranks, they're not novices but this is the part where they are coming into their roles, if novicehood was considered akin to childhood, then this is their teenage years.



...Just off news postings I think I saw some low rank kicked from a guild because they questioned the leadership openly. Normally (if I were an active leader) I'd take claims of my inactivity as a note to check if I've been hiding or offline more often recently. If people were questioning my leadership, I would want to know why. Though maybe it's cause I have the belief that we should always be able to question any decision our leaders make, so that we can understand it or try to share our pov.

Though that is probably getting further into the game than these discussed group.

Hrm.

I was actually told that I was not allowed to greet new players when they came out of the portals. It wasn't my job since I wasn't a Wayfarer in the Collegium ....

Surely you jest? That seems....silly, to put it mildly, to me.

I wish I was joking, but no ... it really did happen.

When there are proper collegium teachers around, leave it to them to greet and welcome novices. They are (usually) trained and specialized for that job, after all. When there's nobody around, though, teach the newb if you can.

That's tarded. I don't care if I'm a collegium teacher, or even just playing a low ranking alt, I ALWAYS try to help the people out of the portals.

Mkay, so far, I like most of what everyone has to say. I have a bit to add though.

1) The guild I am in is very small and there are usually no novices/collegium students around and this makes me sad. I don't know if there is anything I can do to have people create Cantors, but so far.. it's been pretty slow. I've only gotten to do one novice orientation since I started play again and I'm fairly certain this person was an alt. Learned WAY too fast and was ready to go in like.. 5 minutes. If any of you are this character, how did I do? Since this was my first Cantor novice training session, I'd like some input. I usually try to be fairly nice to the little Cantor babies because there are so few of them.. Usually this ends up costing me thousands of gold.. but I try.

2) This week I have had to help novices from other guilds even though there are several people in their guild around. WHY IS THIS? Celest, get off your ! I'm not going to say which guild it is, but I keep seeing this! Over and over! I understand that you might not like training novices, but ignoring them and sitting at the pool, when I know you're not AFK, is just going to make your guild even smaller and crappier. I've even found out from people online after I log off that Eventru has had to tell people to help novices. What the crap people? Your city patron shouldn't have to -order- you to help each other.

3) My boyfriend made a character in Celest and the only people he is friends with are other novices. He has no idea how to cure or fight other players. He has no idea what is going on in Celest. No one ever speaks to him. I have no idea why he still plays. He keeps asking me questions about a type of guild I've never been in and I don't know what to tell him. I tell him to contact people in his guild and he gets ignored. He received no novice orientation, no greeting, no nothing. And there were people around! He's no longer a novice now and expected to help with raids and defending, but he has no clue whatsoever what is going on. It makes me feel crappy because I can't help him, but it also peeves me off to see the freaking GM online and not helping their low level members. (Note. #2 and #3 were both separate situations with different/multiple people)

4) As an older player that joined a new org upon returning.. I feel like I was just citizened and pushed to the side. I wasn't even pointed towards HELP scrolls and no one explained the new collegium thingy to me. I actually asked someone for help and they told me it wasn't their job. I felt really stupid because I couldn't figure it out and I didn't know where to begin sifting to pick up where I had left off. So I did what I would of done any other time and just looked at the novice requirements, not realizing that I also had new collegium requirements as well. Then when someone finally told me I had to do the collegium requirements first and I saw that big whopping 20 hours attached to it, I swear I almost had a cat and then I got to sit through the novice time as well since NO ONE in my guild was ever available to give me the novice tests. And now that I'm out of novicehood.. we don't have an advancement system or an active guild admin. So, yeah.. Joli gets to stay GR1 for a good long while! Ooh, I'm excited! If it wasn't for some of the people I know from way back when and Eventru's sarcastic comments.. I probably would have QQ'd. I don't see how new people can deal with this.



Yeah, that's way too ranty.. but meh.

Edit: I only mentioned Celest because it has been forever and a day since I played in another Org. If I could remember everything from way back then.. I wouldn't of had as much trouble readjusting.

Welcome to the post hai'Gloh Celest.

If they're on and not doing their jobs then there's a problem. You can't expect people do to their jobs because often times you have lazy people. That's why others should still get some knowledge of how to teach and have the willingness to teach despite it not being their job and/or trained to do so.

To Razenth: This isn't just after the hai'Gloh. Celest, for me, has usually been the worst of all 4 cities/communes to be a novice in. Maybe I just create during bad times/downtime.

Maybe. I just know after hai'Gloh, Cantors, Paladins, and Tahtetso lost just about everyone, and a lot of people just stopped caring.

LOL

I had to ask someone what hai'Gloh was.. See, it's that bad! I don't even know why we're at war!