This right here is why Fain's entire argument falls flat on its face.

Not really.


"Oh yes Great Lord! By Your will."
"Oh Great Lord, forgive me, it could not be done! Honest!"

A little writhing in pain, or sad puppy eyes depending on your flavor of God, and Fain's point stands. Players do what players want to do, every time. Every time I've seen a God try to force the issue, in any IRE game, they were laughed off the stage, and often right out of the game.

Of course, we're talking Divine here, not Administration. Game mechanics are a whole different topic.

You don't pay very close attention, then. We've had Narsrim foisted on a Glomdoring that really didn't want him there because the divine stepped in. We've had handfuls removed from Glomdoring because of divine intervention. Celest has had laws made and old laws reinstated because a god said so. I can actually only think of one case where the players banded together and said "no, stfu," and that was when an out-of-nowhere change to Viravain's personality wrecked any dignity the role had.

I don't want to talk about Mag...is boring when you don't live there.

With the kind of divine Eventru is it's perfectly alright for him to tell Celest what to kill, who to shun, and where to poop. What doesn't sit right with me is that most of the decisions right now are either made, or strongly influenced by him or other divine influencing him. Sometimes playing isn't as much fun because of this. It's not just him, but the fact that people in Celest can't say anything contrary to what Eventru believes without it ending bad for the person.

I'm really more upset with the fact that if you aren't a fighter in Celest you are basically a second class citizen. Yes, I know that there is a war on, but being forced to fight when you aren't a fighter? People who can't stay alive for more than one minute of a battle have no business defending or going out to attack during the war.

There should be way more divine involvement in things that don't have to do with fighting. I know that Eventru will mention the importance of the prestige contest from time to time (and maybe he does a lot more on his Order aethers), but it's really not enough. Honestly, the weight should not rest solely on shoulders. This would happen more often if Isune were more active in the city. I know she's around, but it's not the same as being active in the city. If she would appear on the city aethers once in a while there would be more people who followed her.

I know what I'm saying refers mostly to Celest. Divine involvement is both good and bad. Overall they really add to the game. And yes there will be petty (and not so petty) god things going on in shouts and over city aethers. They make you you laugh, eat poo, and then go to war. That's what they do. Honestly, right now, Eventru and Isune are my favorite divine right now (the Fain is awesome too, but Fania doesn't really interact with him). There are times I wish they were less or more involved, but that doesn't mean I like them any less.

One of the reasons I loved Nocht as an admin was because he only roleplayed with you when you sought him out and wanted to roleplay with him. I've always thought the admins are far too involved in this game. It is easy to state that people can just ignore God X, but as Xavius stated, it isn't going to happen. Mostly because God X can do far more to your character than your character can do to God X (even if a 2-3 people are with God X and the rest against). If Gods never talked in public channels (ct, shouts), I imagine the game would have a better roleplay atmosphere (well... it would if not for the players, hehe).

I have to disagree. That's one of the things I enjoy about Lusternia. In all the other IRE games I've played, the Gods just don't seem to be..."there." They seem so distant, and uninvolved. In Lusternia, though, you can just go to their fulcrux and chat up a God, and there's no confusion about what you have to do to get in their order or whatever else.

That was the one where a substantial portion of the council was summarily booted, right?

See the part where I said they shouldn't talk on public channels?

...
You win this round.

lol

Quite so.

Zapped a few times, too. Plus a shrubbing.

I'm not sure where the "Limited power" thing is coming from, since we know for sure that the power is not limited at all. Divine can and have forced leaders to "quit organization," which drops them from all leadership roles as well as looking like (in the logs) that the leader chose to quit. (So, the clarification is that we were not booted, but forced to quit)

Of course, the question about whether or not to actually do this as a Divine is a different matter completely, but the weapons are there, and this lends a lot of weight to the "Do what the Divine say, because they can make your life hell if you don't" path.

I have no reason to think those situations are any different than all the others I've been in. You may not have liked it, eighty percent of everyone may not have liked it, but the players in charge let it happen. If you let the Gods steamroll you, then yeah, you're going to do whatever they want. If you don't, they're powerless, or near enough.

Edit@Xenthos: o.O If a God does that, that's abuse. Unless Lusternia just entered the Twilight Zone. Abuse is a whole other ballpark. I remember one God was favouring up a girl for sexual favors one MUD over, for example. Just because it's happened doesn't mean it's allowed to happen. I hope.

Now that I think about it, I haven't had too many experiences where a God itself tried to force itself upon guild or commune. Sure, every now and then a God will go on a tirade in the news or over an aether, but it hasn't been very often at all for things I'm involved in. Eventru I see is the exception to this.

When it comes to Divine and politics, where I've sometimes seen a problem is Orders. Your Patron's Godrealm is under attack? That's wonderful, why are you yelling at me about it? You are the God's Order, I'm not, why should I be expected to defend the Godrealm? That sort of thing. Orders (rightfully so) treat their Patron's words as universal law, so sometimes try to force everyone else to conform to their God's wishes.

That's called proselytizing. Or maybe brainwashing. It's a perfectly natural and universal consequence of faith.

Defending a God's realm should be expected of the defenders. Its like saying the Avatars of Night/Moon are under attack and you don't defend for you are not in the wiccan guild.

I remember when that event took place (the Viravain thing). If I remember correctly, quite a few of those leaders stop playing after that. :\\ But then again, from an RP point of view Viravain is kind of...law. I mean Glomdoring/Gloriana was her creation, and thus by joining it, in essence, you're saying you're willing to server her (to some extent.) I never did agree with what happened to the leaders during that event but from one angle I understood why it happened.

I prefer the divine interaction in Lusternia over the other IRE games, simply because they have a stronger presence. However, I think sometimes a few liberties are taken by the divine. However, you're not going to find that our gods are perfect. Simply because the people playing them are not perfect. It is a matter of the Divine taking it upon themselves to stand back for a moment, think "Even if it is within the scope of the role playing at the moment, should I do it?" Was it really necessary for the Leaders of Glom to suddenly be removed from position because they we every much against the new Viravain? Maybe not, but that is one way of the role playing could've gone (and did). I'm not trying to sound rude when I say this but sometimes the divine need to take a little more time to think their actions and words through. While the God may not think anything of kicking a mortal from their position of power for going against them, the player needs to think for a moment if that course of action is what should be done.

No. Avatars of Night/Moon are part of that org. Everyone in that org should be expected to defend them. A god's realm is not part of a org. Raezon's realm is Raezon's and not Magnagora's. Eventru's realm is Eventru's and not Celest's. Only those in that god's order should be expected to defend that god's realm.

You could say the realms are part of the org. the Gods are.

Why? because that god is commune/city patron does not mean that you have to lay your life down for them, moreso if you're not in their order. While it would look good of you to jump up and say "My commune/city/guild Patron's realm is being attacked by enemies? Defend it!" you're not required to. You are not tied to that god, if your RP takes you that way. Hell, I'm sure there are people out there that have characters that really don't interact with the divine and merely see them as that guy up in the heavens who can kill me a shiny thunderbolt and nothing more.

Also, the Avatars/Aspects tie directly to the commune. They affect several things, whereas the god's realm doesn't (I think...). That is their personal realm thus it falls on their followers to protect them.

The help file for every org includes the names of their divine pantheon