I have. The spam-stun is a relative nuisance. Further, there is absolutely no need for a 2000 credit artifact to raid Ethereal... as well as it having guards that, when mowed down, don't respawn. Though they are definitely stronger, once they're gone they're pretty much gone.

Invulnerable, or just much stronger?

There is no difference between raiding cosmic and raiding ethereal anymore other than three small things.

1. Liveforest is marginally better than ripple, or so people say.

2. Maeve needs to be killed, which is easy.

3. Faethorn does not get discretionary powers.

Ethereal is no longer the juggernaut of raiding defense, and it may have been nerfed a little too harshly. From the looks of it, people are having no issues running into etherglom and picking off ladies, making it, quite literally, impossible to keep daughters anywhere but the avatars for any length of time.

I want to make it clear that angels/demons are not inconsequential. Ever seen the log of Thoros vs Talkan with the little cherub stunning him? Yeah, Thoros lost.

edit: Oh, and I've been trapped on cosmic planes numerous times thanks to distort rift/shrine distort. Impossible to trap people in ethereal planes.

I thought you had a cubix....? Well, this is good to know.

Wow, they must wane a lot then. When one person can solo all of the Champions and kill them in 20-30 seconds, that's pretty weak.

There seems to be some gross misinformation that needs promptly corrected:

1) Some lesser demons have a –small- chance to break a limb. Some lesser angels have a –small- chance to do a 1 second stun. Otherwise, they do no afflictions. They do very minor damage. The vast majority of angels and demons are spread all over Cosmic making them by no means “defenders” of the Supernals or Demon Lords. The only exception to this are Archangels and Archdemons. One total spawns on Celestia/Nil. The others are only summoned by DL/Supernals and fade within 1 hour.

2) Daughters and Ladies afflict about 33% of the time. They can web (both), blackout (both), blind (daughters), or freeze/break limbs (ladies). They do –massive- damage as Vathie demonstrates in his log in the Hai’gloh thread. It’s not uncommon for a lady or daughter to hit for 1500-2500 damage with certain attacks. It would take around 5 demons to match this damage output (and bear in mind they also don’t afflict).

3) Wiccans have a discretionary power that massively buffs Ladies/Daughters that can be stacked with Liveforest.


As such it should be obvious as to why Ladies/Daughters have such limitations on them. If you want them to be easier to respawn or be better fortified then they should obviously be in the same number and strength as demons/angels. They also SHOULD NOT afflict and hinder like they do. For the most part every time someone complains, however, they seem to want to keep all the advantages with no disadvantages.

As for Ethereal changes, the only change done Ladies/Daughters was to make it so Ladies/Daughters are LESS likely to stick around the Avatars. They still can, but they don’t tend to get stuck in their rooms like they used to do.

Cosmic has and remains significantly harder to defend and less fortified passively. You really have zero room to complain about advantages and mechanics you have when we have no similar equivalent. There is literally not one advantage to defending Cosmic over Ethereal. It is less passively fortified, easier to access, etc. Finally, we lose power when lesser angels/demons die. No such power loss is given by ladies/daughters.

And, as I responded to Vathael, his number is completely and totally skewed to give about the highest possible it can be, without even attempting to state that it's uncommon for it to be that high.

You continue the trend, while trying to correct "gross misinformation".

Let’s clarify then, shall we?

Daughter strength from greatest to least: New Moon, Waxing Crescent/Waning Crescent, First Quarter/Last Quarter, Waxing Gibbous/Waning Gibbous, Full Moon.

Now, many people expect that they go from super strong to super weak. This isn’t the case whatsoever. The only thing that changes so far as I can tell is their health. They are invulnerable during the New Moon and have the least health during the Full Moon. They still hit about the same regardless of Moon Phase (it certainly doesn’t vary anywhere to the degree of how much they can tank). They still afflict the same regardless of Moon Phase.

Also, Nexus Surge seems to buff Daughters such that they seem as hard to kill during the Full Moon as the Waxing or Waning Crescents. Of course since you fight them regularly, I'm sure you were fully aware of this Xenthos.

And, of course, Nexus Surge has so much effect when they're regularly harvested. Given that you have participated in this, I'm sure you are fully aware of how much effect it has when there's absolutely nothing for it to buff, yet you don't mention that either. And yes, their health changes. As far as I am aware their damage does too. Every single time you lot post damage / complain about it, it has always been near a New Moon. You're welcome to actually get the numbers from other times and post them to prove me wrong, but you should at least give it a shot, hm?

Of course afflictions don't change, just mob level. This does not change the fact that, given how they are gathered (the formula is much more complex than "10 of a single type of fae"), it's very easy to just harvest them once a day during off-hours and pretty much ensure that you're never going to be bothered by guards or surge.

Edit: Also, you're posting for Narsrim again? This reads a lot like his words, not yours.

I shall lol most heartily at claiming angels have a small chance to do a 1 second stun. After raiding Celestia on and off for a day and a half or so, sometimes without ripple/shrine powers/defenders and sometimes with all that, I can most definitely say it is not a small chance. In the times without all that stuff people use to defend, I was still stunned half the time. They also are not as weak as you say, because the angels alone would be enough to make me sip/sparkle. Depending on if I was stunned at the time or not, sometimes scroll.

I'm posting for myself- You have absolutely no idea how they hit and have offered absolutely no data. I'll post some numbers once I go slicing daughters again then, during different phases and such. It's also annoying how you try to detract from subject matter by insinuating that I don't have a brain. Daughters/Ladies > angels/demons!

Edit: And to Sarrasri- I’d like to see a log of 1 cherub making you sip or sparkle. Or a diva. Or one seraph. Now if you manage to walk into a cluster of them (which never happens around the Supernals), small chances add up. Small damage adds up. Try walking to five daughters or so as you will instantly die in most cases or be permanently knocked off equilibrium until you die.

Mostly because I don't attack my own mobs. I am, however, pointing out that you've offered absolutely no relevant data either. Numbers from about 1 hour off their maximum strength really makes no picture whatsoever.

Do keep in mind.

Serenwilde and Glomdoring used to raid each other quite a bit.


'Absolutely no idea how they hit' is a little far fetched. Since...yknow...Daughters and Ladies are way different and all.

As for the health/damage, the damage probably does scale, but the level of scaling is nowhere near the same as the health scaling. I attacked daughters during Full Moon and they still hurt. The only difference is that they just drop faster.

Wait Wait! I know how hard they hit! They attacked me on tuesday!



Daughters don't hit that hard. In fact I think they should be buffed up. They don't hit any harder than the average mob I bash.






See? I can post skewed information too!

Gasp! They are even weaker than angels!

Uh huh. I'm going to post some logs of daughters kicking my ass and we shall see!

If a druid can tank them easily and a warrior cannot, someone must be doing something wrong. Just sayin'

Nerf Gregori.

Oh on the actual topic of moving Ladies/Daughters around though.

I am against that.

We don't have Guards in the Ethereal for a reason.