There seems to be some gross misinformation that needs promptly corrected:

1) Some lesser demons have a –small- chance to break a limb. Some lesser angels have a –small- chance to do a 1 second stun. Otherwise, they do no afflictions. They do very minor damage. The vast majority of angels and demons are spread all over Cosmic making them by no means “defenders” of the Supernals or Demon Lords. The only exception to this are Archangels and Archdemons. One total spawns on Celestia/Nil. The others are only summoned by DL/Supernals and fade within 1 hour.

2) Daughters and Ladies afflict about 33% of the time. They can web (both), blackout (both), blind (daughters), or freeze/break limbs (ladies). They do –massive- damage as Vathie demonstrates in his log in the Hai’gloh thread. It’s not uncommon for a lady or daughter to hit for 1500-2500 damage with certain attacks. It would take around 5 demons to match this damage output (and bear in mind they also don’t afflict).

3) Wiccans have a discretionary power that massively buffs Ladies/Daughters that can be stacked with Liveforest.


As such it should be obvious as to why Ladies/Daughters have such limitations on them. If you want them to be easier to respawn or be better fortified then they should obviously be in the same number and strength as demons/angels. They also SHOULD NOT afflict and hinder like they do. For the most part every time someone complains, however, they seem to want to keep all the advantages with no disadvantages.

As for Ethereal changes, the only change done Ladies/Daughters was to make it so Ladies/Daughters are LESS likely to stick around the Avatars. They still can, but they don’t tend to get stuck in their rooms like they used to do.

Cosmic has and remains significantly harder to defend and less fortified passively. You really have zero room to complain about advantages and mechanics you have when we have no similar equivalent. There is literally not one advantage to defending Cosmic over Ethereal. It is less passively fortified, easier to access, etc. Finally, we lose power when lesser angels/demons die. No such power loss is given by ladies/daughters.

Let's also remember that any damage Malicia takes will be greater than anything other people take. She's a high health tracker with crap dmp. She failed to point that out.

Oh man, talk about trying to drastically skew reality. I have no doubts that daughters are in literal terms stronger than angels/demons, but at least don't warp the facts so badly that you come across as totally biased.

Allow me to promptly correct you.

Angels/demons stun quite often, as well as break limbs and paralyze. In fact, with ripple/angels, I'm usually stunned about as often as I am not stunned. If you'd like to debate the usefulness of afflictions, go for it, but I'm going to go ahead and say stun is the best one out there. Don't forget, ripple stacks with angels just like liveforest stacks with daughters.

Daughters no longer exist in any real numbers. They are constantly picked off. Constantly. Thus their "massive" damage is nullified by the fact that they are dead. They also chase so they will often times be lead away from defenders and picked off one by one. This can be done by anyone, cubix not required. Angels/demons on the other hand respawn over and over and have to be dealt with. The power loss is pathetic, so drop that argument.

Let's also remember that any damage Malicia takes will be greater than anything other people take. She's a high health tracker with crap dmp. She failed to point that out.

Honestly, the things you are posting needs to just be corrected. You can't say things like "bear in mind they don't afflict" and cosmic is "easier to access." You sound foolish.

Secondly, cosmic is easier to access.

The heck?

Maybe if you have a 2000 credit artifact, but without it Ethereal is far easier to access. And even with it... it's just a few more steps.

Let me help you out- The argument 'because their always dead' has very little bearing on the amount of damage and afflictions they do. That's a rather dumb statement. I already said I'd post some logs and not only the damage and afflictions they do at various moon phases. I've dealt with demons and I have to say that they were far easier to deal with than a stack of daughters/ladies. Since my playing a tracker is the key in your rebuttal, I'll ask others to provide some actual numbers as well. Secondly, cosmic is easier to access. These things all weigh in when considering the original poster's idea.

Let me help you out- The argument 'because their always dead' has very little bearing on the amount of damage and afflictions they do. That's a rather dumb statement. I already said I'd post some logs with focus on the damage and afflictions they do at various moon phases. I've dealt with demons and I have to say that they were far easier to deal with than a stack of daughters/ladies. Since my playing a tracker is the key in your rebuttal, I'll ask others to provide some actual numbers as well. Secondly, cosmic is easier to access. These things all weigh in when considering the original poster's idea.

Well, I do have a big problem with the cubix and I do wish there were a discretionary power that blocked it. It makes it very easy to raid the cosmic/elemental planes. I was actually going to post up an idea that gave orgs a way to prevent cubix hopping at a power cost with the hopes that shrine distort would be deleted, but that's for another thread.

When you do, consider that the Prism works on Ethereal/Elemental but not on Cosmic, and is a fraction of the price.

Without the cubix though, Ethereal is definitely far more accessible. Prism is an easy-out. Can also just use the archway. There are no guards on either side of it.

Prism doesn't take you directly into Ethereal Glomdoring/Serenwilde. Once you're inside and have to deal with liveforest and shrines that cover all the commune's assets, prism and cubix are on equal ground. One just costs more.

So Serenwilde and Glomdoring pop in and out of Nil/Celestia every 5 minutes between the hours of 6 AM to 10 AM EST?

Uh huh... What's time have to do with anything? Rant somewhere else. I don't know what you're talking about, I'm just discussing defense advantages.

Narsrim tells you, "I'm not entirely sure why you are melding. I killed all of them!"

But I'm just not getting your arguments. It's not like walking into Faethorn and then going a few steps either way is... difficult. :/

Prism doesn't take you directly into Ethereal Glomdoring/Serenwilde. Once you're inside and have to deal with liveforest and shrines that cover all the commune's assets, prism and cubix are on equal ground. One just costs more.

Edit: @Harkux- about as often as various others cubixwhore in and out of Celestia/Nil.

Second edit: @Celina- I'm sorry but I don't feel that an org's inability to keep their daughters/ladies alive negates the potential of said mobs.

@Shujiro- Didn't say it was impossible. Just that cubix/free medallions make it easy to hop on and off cosmic planes. Prism makes it easy to raid Water/Earth with PERMA rifts that take you to Cosmic. Prism takes you into Faethorn and then you work your way up to the archways. Have someone meld Faethorn or plant a thousand eyeballs and you can spot an enemy before they even get their group into org territory. I will admit that moving the nexus and making ethereal meldable (after certain conditions are met) evens things out some, but it's not ENTIRELY even yet. I did hear they 'fixed' ripple.