I can get behind voting for Serella -- but not voting at the moment because I think that's enough votes to get some sort of response. If not, I'll vote.

(( So sorry for the inactive! I was moving from Germany back to the States, and I hit some unforeseen speed bumps in the process. But I'm back now and will be participating! ))

Aliod is still AWOL though.

Blah, I'm so bad with lurkiness. I need to remember to check this thread more, apologies T_T

Anyway, now that we know Daganev is Sakuya I have some information that might be important: My role is from the Scarlet Devil Mansion faction, and I win with town. So I think we can safely confirm that he's not scum, unless Sakuya doesn't win with town for some reason.

Salvation, Kira and I are all arguing the same point.

Shiri is acting scum, because he is trying to convince us that something is "obviously" true. However, that fact is FAR from obviously true, and I would expect a non-town member to try to convince us that it is true. Other players, who know the lore, such as Furien, have NOT suggested this line of reasoning. Therefore you can't say that this line of reasoning is something that people who know the lore would be inclined to believe.


Question. When has going after a lurker on day 1 ever resulted in them being non-town?

Just off the top of my head, we iced Saaga day 1 in Rika's game for being AWOL and she was Illith.

Your attempt to turn the whole case into something about "things people who know the lore would believe" is highly dubious. That isn't my angle at all. I'm concluding that it's probably the case from various things about the setup, my role in relation to my flavour, experience with mafia, and a couple of issues with the signup thread.

I also note that no one has come out saying their role doesn't fit with their flavour, even though if I were wrong it'd be a pretty fast way for a townie to settle the debate without really revealing anything. It might be that it's inconsistent across characters and people just don't know, but they could just look it up on the wiki...anyone willing to claim I'm wrong on that one except Daganev (Kira and Salvation aren't actually addressing that part directly)? If not, that 3-4 figure Daganev helpfully pointed out earlier is going to start looking really useful.

What a joke.

In Kira's "hero" game, I was frodo, the mafia.
I could have role claimed to be Frodo the tracker, the good hero of the story and nobody except the other mafia members would know that I was scum based on my role alone.

The question is not if your power has ANY relation to your role, of course it does. But that role and relation don't necessarily define who is scum and who isn't. Meaning the ONLY information we will get out of any of your suggestions are who the likely people to be investigator or doctors are. Let's not make the game easier for the scum OK?

Unvote. I'm willing to believe Serella's town.

Are you claiming to be a mason?

Yes, since that proves there is a correlation, and masons basically exist purely for this purpose so we don't really lose much except the relatively minor sacrifice of the scum knowing two people not to bother going for 'till later. Ran went to sleep, but will hopefully back me up on this one when they wake up.

This game and the Kira's are obviously not the same thing. This isn't like Xavius' heroes game where scum was randomly assigned. Tekora went to the effort of putting a big storyline post up at the start basically clearing several characters and incriminating one or MAYBE two...I don't doubt that there will be a twist but that will be so much easier to figure out after the fact when everyone is a known quantity.

Unvote I'm gonna leave Serella alone on the basis that there are like five scarlet devil mansion characters at best so it will be easy to figure out if she's lying later, with Daganev confirmed.

Now what? I think Othero's right that we're better off going after a semi-lurker than full on AWOL because we're just likely to stall out and get a mod replace on the latter, but eh.

Vote: Allergic as a placeholder until he gets back and produces something.

It's less about role being related to flavour and more about alignment being related to flavour. There is a distinction. I, at least, am arguing that it is (just as) likely that flavour and alignment are not related at all since (as has been mentioned numerous times) there is no real 'evil'. Your theory of people from one faction or other being scum/town is not untrue. However, you are pushing for it very hard for someone who has no real proof beyond his own role. My argument has always been that it is JUST AS likely that alignment and flavour are not related at all as it is any other case because alignment and flavour being related in all cases makes this game almost too easy (since we can just challenge all, figure out names, lynch people until a mafia = certain alignment, lynch all of those alignments, done).

Okay, this is getting quite ridiculous and I'm getting more and more certain that Shiri is scum for a number of reasons. First we have his continued insistance that mass-claim could be a good idea, and that everyone who argues against it is scum. Shiri's pointed out me, Daganev and Serella as potential scum. Me and Dag directly because of our argument against this idea, and Serella... I have no proof, but I still find that extremely iffy for reasons I'll get to later. But first of all is the fact that Shiri keeps on misrepresenting me and Daganev, trying to twist what we're saying far away from the truth. I never stated that mass claims won't help us find scum. I'm saying that the only thing we know for sure is that it will give us Yuka and possibly Mima if we're lucky, while at the same time revealing all the role names to the scum faction. Do we want Reimu, Suika, Yukari and the like killed on Night 1? No. The insistance on this and prevalent labeling of dissenting voices as scummy makes me believe that Shiri is someone who benefits from knowing the names of everyone here, beyond just the ability to check out if people are who they claim to be in a danmaku battle. As a final point, before I talk this away. Othero has already claimed that he has a rival. Maybe there are others out there too who has rivals. Declining a danmaku battle does NOT a scum make. Shiri does not argue against that assumption, instead trying to sow doubt about my credibility. Town does not have to do that. Town attacks logic, not person.

What town has to do is rely on standard scum hunting techniques. This (or so it seems to me) is and has always been Daganev's main message. When you have an easy way to idenity people through danmaku battles, there is bound to be a catch. Shiri trying to gloss over this logic with personal attacks is again not good townie behaviour.

There's also his inactive voting. He so easily jumped straight to AtS. He was flat out inactive in which case you look into getting him replaced first. Stand alone, this wouldn't be so bad. But then there's going for Serella afterwards. Serella, though few posts, is not the most lurkery person. Take a look at this post. It's trying to actually participate and helping to clarify the current dispute (and speaking out in favour of caution too).



Compare that to the likes of Arix (Hi. I'm going. Hi. Bye), Shaddus (I have a potion. I drink it) and Solanis (going with the flow). This is their regular attitude, but so is Serella being quiet. She still posted after all those (check the date on the quoted post) with far more information in that one post than their additions to the game up until that point put together, no offense to them. It's just that she committed to more on her own than what they did. However, it's easy to get lazy players to just look at the number of posts and go "oh, let's lynch X for she has least posts. That does make sense.". Relying on the laziness of players is a useful scum strategy.

And speaking about attitudes. I've noticed that when Shiri is scum, he tends to be more aggressive and prone to calling those who disagree with him for fools. Minor point, but it all adds up to one conclusion.

For the tl;dr crowd, I am making this decision because;

Shiri is consistently misrepresenting me and Daganev, and attacking the person rather than the logic.
Shiri voted for Serella. Serella is usually quiet, and before the vote she provided a thought out post with a far more investigative and clearing tone than other lurkers who go with the flow.
Shiri is aggressive in a manner he usually is when he is scum. I.E. he comes with far more personal attacks. This is not as solid evidence as the other two points, but scum are usually detected by a shift in behaviour from when they play town.

With that out of the way, allow me to invoke Star Sign: Flame Shiri.

...

Oh wait. Wrong game. I can't do that here. Vote: Shiri

I'm back. Would have posted sooner but I had to run some errands today. It'll be a bit while I check the posts, so yeah.

KVote:Shiri Know what, the fighting has been at this point strong enough that if we lynch one we might possibly be able to label the others as either town or scum. If Shiri doesn't have a good reason as to why we shouldn't lynch her then I think we should do it and find out. If she is scum I think we can trust Dag a bit more, though I'm still thinking they could both be scum, and if she is town then I think Dag would make a good lynch for scum.

First of all, Shiri is a guy. Second of all, it mostly sounds like Daganev is talking out of his ass again, and you people are falling for it.

Well, I'm done reading now, and will continue to stick with my 'Daganev is full of sh*t' theory. Also, it's usually a good idea to ignore him when he goes off on Shiri, because he almost always does that

I will be replacing Arix.

VOTE SHIRI

Wait, WHY are we voting for Shiri? He's Chen. I am 90% certain that Chen is not, and will not be scum, nor in support of Mima or Yuka.

And Shiri always rips out some sort of personal attack or 'Well, it's not my fault you're too dense to understand.' statement when someone disagrees with his thought process. Generally no more or less when he's playing a scum character.

Once again, though. Chen. Servant of Ran. Who is a servant of Yukari. Who called us all here to find out what's going on. Not scum. Has Ran come forward yet to admit to a masonry? I haven't seen it yet.

FoS: Othero
FoS: Kiradawea

As for Serella- she's from SDM. I would like to point out that the Scarlet Devil Mansion also imprisons Flandre, and for all we know she can be out here somewhere hiding. Flandre is a GREAT stereotype for a serial killer role. A little girl with massive destructive power, locked away in her room for 395 years. Would you be ticked? I would be. I'm not ruling her out.

This is a mafia game, not Touhou Cannon. AKA fan-fiction.

Perhaps Miama(sp?) was able to bribe Chen and give him/her powers that exist even when far away from Ran.
Perhaps Chen is sick of being a servant and wants to venture out on thier own and is killing all those who are keeping the old order in place which prevents that from happening.
Perhaps Shiri has a power to grab cards from other characters that are not in the game to protect his identity.
Perhaps Ran orchestrated this whole deal to get some sort of revenge/went crazy/gave up hope etc...

Ran has not come forward, but the point is, we just don't know for certain anyone's loyalty, but what we do know for certain is thier behavior.

Is Bali serious or not, it's hard to tell. Tekora can you clarify?

Ok, this will become pretty obvious if I die...I'm less convinced of Daganev because of Sakuya, although he's doing his best to convince me he's scummy with his terrible reasoning, and the whole Kaguya-Mokou thing still doesn't add up so leave Othero alone for now, but Salvation and Kiradawea are getting worse and worse (Kira: "voting for lurkers is a scum tactic! Stop misrepresenting me!" Right.)

Luckily it's a rectifiable situation (on day 2, no overuse!)