We will kill anyone that comes to fight when we raid. I can understand how you say that's only newbies though I guess. I don't recall any raid that I was on lasting for two hours though.

Wasn't quoting myself.

I do!

This seems to be your favorite line. Haven't you considered the possibility that there are raids other than the ones you've been on, raids that have lasted for more than two hours?

I think the Avenger system is pretty pointless. Nobody goes around jumping random people anymore, and the only people that use it are the ones who abuse it when you chase them down to Prime and kick their ass (like Urazial).

I've always thought that anti-PK defense should be handled by the organization rather than the divine. Maybe a "Don't kill people excessively for no reason" rule is a good idea, but there should never be punishment doled out by a Divine PK system.

At least Achaea's PK rules allow you to beat the crap out of people for mouthing off at you - with Lusternia you can't do that unless you're not "suspect". And with the peace at the Aetherplex you can't do that most of the time anyway.



I actually see no problem with this. If said person does look at you funny and insult you (within reason) then why should they be allowed to get away with their stupidity?

But again, this type of thing should be handled org-level, not admin-level. Organizations should create their own PK rules rather than having the admins hand them out to them.

Being a veteran of Aetolia and Imperian, two games which have absolutely no PK rules whatsoever, I can say that what half of the people in this thread have described simply hasn't happened and will not happen if there is no Avenger system. Nobody is going to walk around killing newbies randomly for looking at them funny. That's the kind of stuff that would get people a bad reputation, and possibly retribution by their city or guild and the city and guild that they are killing people for.

Besides, 90% of all PVP combat happens off-prime, where the Avenger doesn't protect. I've only ever killed three people on Prime and it was all for good reason - Gleip for deliberate kill-stealing while I was bashing (i.e. following me around uninvited and attacking whatever I am), Urazial after me and some other Magnagoran chased him onto Prime, and Kenchas for general douchebaggery. Let me tell you, when I got avenger whacked by Urazial that was the most boring period of time I ever spent on Lusternia. I got a cityfavour out of it, though, so I was content.

I think you might have missed what the point is. These sentences suggest to me that it's entirely on point, and working. What did you think was its purpose if not to have the effects you just described?

There's a reason 90% of combat is off-plane and that's because that's where the high-value targets are. There is little to nothing of value to be gained from raiding cities or such. It's all in the earth/tide lords, the demon lords/supernals, the aspects, etc.

Considering you have to kill someone -twice- in order for you to get avenged, the Avenger system can't really be a valid reason for the lack of random jumping. I chalk that up to people having some goddamn common sense.

Killing guards on Prime is pretty hefty, since it costs power to resummon them back. Also, the playerbase has already proven itself unfit for absolute control, so I think the Avenger system is pretty fine right now.

I just think all it does right now is give people excuse to act like complete morons under the protection of a system that has way too much potential for abuse.

This sentence is dangerously wrong in a remarkable number of ways. First, prime has plenty to attack; that it's not worth attacking is because of things like Avenger. Second, high-value targets are off-prime because of the same design decision that makes Avenger not protect them: it gives people the choice of the large part of Lusternia without protections or the equally-large part of Lusternia with protections. And third, most of the raiding that goes on has nothing to do with high-value targets. They are at best a pretext. It's either about getting someone to fight you, or about getting to wave your genitals around.