I still think you are focusing on the wrong thing here, Gregs.

The primary issue here isn't the Demigod, it's the damage. Which is buffed a little by Demi, but it's a small part of the overall stacking of +damage allowed to a Warrior (where the issue primarily lies).

And your solution would be...?

It is impossible to buff to 25 strength without demi, fyi.

I am not focusing on the demigod. I am offering alternatives to something suggested if that is the way things are going. I already agree and posted that it is the artifacts on top of demi that cause the problem.

I also agree with, I think it Desitrus who originally brought the idea up, that warrior damage should cap at 25%. If bards can pull incredible damage off with stacking buffs and arties they should be capped too. In fact -everyone- should be capped period, just to be on the safe side.

The primary solution is to re-examine how +% damage effects (war blessing, Puissance, war domoth, etc) stack. Make it so that it gets far weaker the more you stack (or even just cap it). You could potentially include the +% damage from stats in this (which would help tone down the end curves of the damage spectrum without significantly impacting the general population).

Solution 2 is to cap how much damage can be done in a single attack to 25% of a person's health (in a PC attack, NPCs can still do their full damage).

Maybe make elemental runes do 1/4 instead of 1/3, as well (yes, I know they've already been nerfed, but they're still at the root of the issue).

why I said already stacking... what would they have then, 22, 21. Still making them the cream of the crop.

As Xenthos said he is thinking on envoying the issue of the damage. Do not take away the good reason to be Demigod, honestly. I rage at even the thought. If level 100 was supposed to be meaningless, I never would have made an attempt to play this game anyway because it is the only buffs/things worth earning that you don't have to buy and that are accessible to everyone. It really is that chalice of a thing to work towards.

No, I said that I already heavily commented / pushed it in one of the reports that was submitted (the Paladin Fervor one). It's too broad/sweeping to envoy as a single item, though we could try doing a larger report on it.

As a warrior titan with more artifacts than Estarra, including a full set of runes on my flails (yes, Narsrim thinks they're tacky, but I like them), I feel safe in saying that my damage output isn't a problem for 95% of the people I fight. In fact, I'm appalled that I only do 500-800 damage on average to someone with a jab from a flail that has over 1500 credits worth of artifacts stuck to it.

To add to that, Ceren is one tanky guy with a high damage output (and, I'm sure there are plenty others like him), and he's not a warrior with artied weapons at the moment...

So, please don't start talking about nerfing my damage output without considering the full picture and focusing on balancing the effects of weapon and racial stats on damage output across the board.

My question for you is: How often do you stack on the +% damage abilities on top of your artifacts? Max the damage, pick targets with weaknesses to your elementals, etc. I really don't think you fight a lot, so I'm pretty sure you don't go out of your way to maximize the output anywhere near as much as you could-- and thus, my solution really would not affect you in any way.

Ceren, on the other hand, does stack such things (including the +% magic damage rune).

Scale warrior damage. Even the ones with arties. Scale it like all caster damage scales.

Xavius pointed out something. That warrior arties aren't just about damage. They affect everything. Afflictions, speed, and damage that all compound the problem.

So people are getting swatted down like bugs, or afflictions are being piled on at an impossible rate. I think the damage runes are the most obvious problem because 1) it spams deathsight and 2) it completely eliminates the sip vs apply mechanic warriors are supposed to have. It's generally apply and die now or sip and die a few second later.

The solution is not giving everyone the same damage buffing option. That will just make things infinitely worse.

edit: Zarquan, you are a self admitted non combatant, so I think it's fairly safe to say you aren't even attempting to achieve your full potential.

Ceren stacks damage buffs. 1) champion artie (only mage arties give +% in damage) 2) raise staff (geo only) 3) damage rune and probably 4) war blessing. He's tanky because he's high con, extremely high ego race with a skill that allows him to bounce damage back and forth from his health to his ego, while the damage to his ego scales to his lesser health. He's so tanky because he's planned it that way. What he has wouldn't work for any other guild/race combo.

Agreed. And I point back to my mention of the mentality of fighters. People who see themselves as combatants obtain items/equipment/arties/blessings that will increase survivability. Just having the artifacts is not enough, you have to know how to apply them.

Unfortunately, being kephera I'm not one to comment on warrior damage, but I do know Ceren's damage is insane, and this is with Snake totem covering my racial weakness entirely.

First of all, they do scale. Second of all, we've rebalanced warrior damage once before and it's a fairly gruesome process. However, I'm willing to consider doing it again.

Can I hear from others besides Celina and Xenthos on if warrior damage should be looked at? (Again, it's a very time consuming process.)

Actually Ceren is another good example of nonwarrior/monk who does pretty ridiculous damage, but I figure that's more being Geomancer being...shall we say, conveniently ideal.

So, what I mean to say is, the problem is not just demigod warriors only (of course damage stacking is an issue, and so on), I really think it's demigod as a whole.

I am fine with keeping the stats, they are already weighted anyway, but I'd be down with reducing divinefire to a bashing-only move.

Assuming the high end there for damage and someone with 3000 health, that means you are doing over 50% of their health per combo, and you can easily push that up even higher if you chose to do so.

No disrespect intended, but limiting yourself for whatever reasons is not a reason to not fix something that needs fixing. Not when the potential to increase your damage considerably is there for you.

I always use the war karma blessing. My flails are geared more towards damage than most warriors' weapons, though I'm going to have to hop on the wagon soon and just make them precision (fix the hammer/rapier/etc stat difference, too, please!). I picked the elementals the same way everyone else did, looking at the obvious bad choices (magic, bleh) and choosing what's left. I use crush a lot, and I've been working in puissance when I can lately.

At any rate, warrior artifacts are freakin' expensive compared to most other classes. Who else spends 3,150 credits on their weapons just to do 500-800 damage per swing?

No, it's +% damage being very powerful. He's got a +% magic damage rune, which is... well... the geomancer's attack (and it affects earthquake as well). Stack on war blessing, etc, and he's going to be very painful.

Again, the issue is not demigod but the ability to stack +% damage on attacks that are already somewhat powerful to begin with. And if you further curve it by examining the % from stats... that may help somewhat, but it may not even be necessary.

The issue I have, personally, is that speed is king. Damage means less than it should (the 500-800 figure is on targets with 6k+ health, not the lowbies). Precision isn't too bad, but the demigod stats may be allowing certain warriors to get the critical afflictions in only a couple combos, which seems like a bad thing for combat balance.

While I think the problems of balancing combat, including demigods and similar things, is important, I would hate to see it totally displace the question of whether the game is about combat, or about a lot of things including combat. What drew me to Lusternia, and drew me back to Lusternia, and drew me into Lusternia, etc., is that it was about a lot of things. There's plenty of games where combat tends to dominate the activities, and Lusternia wasn't one of those. (And other games where combat is completely, or almost completely, eliminated, and Lusternia also wasn't one of those.)

What can fix that? I've addressed this twice previously, but anyway...
1) The leaders can become dedicated to making it end. I have little faith in that under the best of circumstances, and even less given who the leaders are right now, but it is at least theoretically possible.
2) Some random shift of people can drain the steam from the offense, or shift the power balance, but we can't really make that happen. People will org-hop or go dormant as they choose, and the only trends in that area are usually the ones that make problems worse, not better. When this changes things it's an unpredictable jolt that comes when it will.
3) The admin can do an event which either distracts us from the momentum (like the "you must band together to survive" one mentioned earlier), or which changes the meaning of things (like Maeve changes her mind again, or Raziela does, or some new factor makes the current alliances again untenable). This is the only one that's really directed at Estarra's inquiry of "what can we do". It feels like a copout to say the admins can do it but we can't. But the admins have two advantages: first, they can move in unity, which we can't; and second, they have huge leverage, a few words from a Supernal or an Elder God can be more persuasive to the populace at large than anything a whole cabal of city leaders can accomplish in a decade.
4) It will eventually restore itself to balance, over the course of RL months or longer. Those might be months that a lot of us spend somewhere else, and some of us won't find our way back afterwards, but it will work, and more people will arrive during them, so maybe that's the best option. (Though I think it's overly simplistic to imagine that everything will always return to how it was: the conflict might die down, the power balance might shift, but it could still end up with a standing change in the focus of what life in Lusternia is like, if nothing counters it.)

Actually, the 500-800 is on the lowbies, too. We just checked it again, and warrior damage really doesn't scale all that much (I did pretty much the same damage to an Ascendant with 9600 health and a Shadowdancer with 4200 health).