Family / Great House system.

I voted for streamlining combat. I realize I'm new... but it seemed the best, other than family houses. And since combat will most likely be a bigger issue... yep, it seems like a good thing, all things considered.

The problem is, you practically need that stuff straight out of the portal. It's the bare minimum for fighting yes, because if you lack even one of them, you won't last long since you'll be unable to cure your afflictions. Add on top all the "nice-to-haves" such as armour, various enchants, scrolls, teas, musicboxes... it's pretty overwhelming for a newbie to be presented with a list. I remember back when I was a novice, I considered quitting right then and there when I saw all the cures I needed. It is an overwhelming amount, and cutting it slightly will make a positive impact I think.

I disagree with needing all that straight out of the Portal. I didn't have a full set of curatives for a very very long time, but I didn't go on rampant PVP sprees as a lowbie, either. I think we the established players try to rush younglings too quickly through the earlier stages of the game.

I dunno. That's how it was in the Celestines though, where you were pretty much expected to earn your first set of curatives as swiftly as possible. And for a youngling, 30k is a large amount to spend on things needed to survive combat. You'll still need it, although in lesser amounts, if you're gonna do any sparring against people your own might. And most people aren't going to want to wait until level 80 before they participate in PvP anyway, though that's a whole nother problem.

I waited till lv80 before I even started sparring in any sort of serious capacity ._. I'm just saying, maybe encourage people to take it a bit slower, quit with the rushy rush to get in on the stabby stab, and maybe, just maybe, people will focus on more stuff beyond just fighting.

PvE is horrible. If you wait until level 80 for people to actually start playing the game, you'll (continue to) lose lots.

Not everyone wants to be in combat right away, and you tend to learn a lot from PVE which helps in combat.

Agreed. PVE is like training wheels. There's also quests and roleplay. The game isn't completely about bashing and combat. If you're tiny, you should expect to get smushed by a demigod.

As a newbie who hasn't even gotten to creating a character yet, because I'm so unsure of what I'm doing as far as class/race combo...

I have to admit this whole PvP combat thing scares me immensely. The amount of information, the requirement of a system and so many curatives, and the general know-how doesn't really bode well for me making a good entry into the system.

Since that was sorta the discussion, just throwing my two cents in here again. Again, I'm new... so I probably don't know all that much.

I had 30k before I even left Newton. In a game where gold is easy to come by, 30k is not as daunting as you make it seem. By the time you should be in actual combat, you should be able to make 30k in a couple hours.

I bought 5 credits just out of newton when I first started. 30k is nothing if you just spend 1-21 turning in finks and gnomes.

I had around 25k right out of Newton. The honours quest is pretty decent money, too, if you figure it out. I think it was 5000 each time?

Must've been changed then. I only got 600 gold from completing the Newton honour quest, and I felt that was a lot compared to what else I earned.

Should be about that actually.

I walked out of Newton with around 30-40k. Can't really remember properly.

Regardless, I'm also making a ton of money off bashing, and I'm not that high of a level. The money thing really isn't an issue, since I was able to grab 2+ of all the vials and 500+ of all the herbs before I hit level 60.

Also, you..really don't learn anything about combat from PvE. You might learn how to stand up, writhe, maybe cure 1 or 2 afflictions. It'd be like learning how to swim in a pool and saying I'm ready to handle a tidal wave.

I walked out of newton dirt poor, because this Bolt banger was a mystery when I was a newbie.

But you'll never ever be able to stand up to that damn tidal wave if you can't even swim in a pool. A lot of my shield tracking, afflict tracking, etc. was built using PVE as guidelines for what I might need in real combat.

The steep learning curve is one that all of us have had to get over. I'm still learning myself.

It's a rewarding experience to learn it over time and something that you can be proud of when you achieve certain goals. It speaks volumes that Ceren or Vathael know what they know and perform how they perform. Combat isn't easy, it shouldn't be. Take the time to learn it, and learn from your mistakes.

It's probably what keeps many players playing. They still feel they have more to master, more to learn, and more to achieve in combat.

Apparently "streamlining" for some means to have an easy button. I want to fight without having to cure, or have no-strategy combat--there are MUDs for that. Perhaps you should look into that. IRE MUDs are known for their combat system and that sets them apart.

I already mentioned what streamlining should be. It should be removing redundancy, it should be simplifying commands.

We have the envoy system (and I understand there are complaints about it being an imperfect system) and changes happen over time. Let your voices be heard through your envoy.

But, there seems to be strong support for both a Demigod shop and streamlining combat. Why can't we have both?

IRE has really limited resources. I'm pretty sure most (all?) of the Gods, builders, etc. are volunteers.