As I've stated before, I really dislike that to begin the city epic quests, all that must be done is the task of raising the Necromentate/Star five times. Doing so is boring and tedious, and it is quite easy to (accidentally) steal the work that others before you have done. Thus I propose this.

Reduce the number of honours gained from raising the star and necromentate to 3 only.

Require that you perform both the "Raising of Princess Marilynth" and "Empowered the Black Tide of Taerin" for Celestians and "Release the Ship of the Dead" and "Empowered the Wounded Crust of Taerin" for Magnagorans.

This will reduce the amount of times you have to do the most boring quest in all of Lusternia to start the epic quest, increase the overall difficulty of starting the epic quest, decrease the theft of city honours and add more flavour to the epic quest honour line, as it'll mean more than just "AFK farmed mobs".

In addition, this solution does not require introducing new quests and should thus be possible to be changed far quicker.

This is my proposal. The quests I chose because both have city mirror equivalents, the first quest is highly relevant to the cities thanks to the sea and the second is deeply tied to their own elemental plane.

If this was done, I'd also like to see Ail'Fae Runia tweaked slightly so that it doesn't require both Moonhart and Ravenwood nut, as well as replacing one of the forestal honour-requirements (because, unlike the city ones which are repetitive boring grind-fests, the Communes have more condensed grind-fests which are only able to be done 1 hour out of every 32. Miss the window, and no honours for anyone, whereas city-folk can just keep grinding at it). Plus maybe one more.

Honestly, you guys have a massive grindfest, but you can also do more of them in a much shorter period of time than the Communes could ever hope to-- and it's already a 45,000 power bonus from completing it. Making it faster / easier for y'all isn't really necessary IMO (you could always go work on the elemental / ship part while someone else is doing the beacons, after all, instead of only one person able to work on it at a time).

Keep in mind that since this went in, there have only been three New Moons. That is a maximum of 3 honours that could be completed, whereas with Celest... how many prophecies have been given so far?

Celest's can be done much more often than ours, too. Just a tidbit.

Edit: That is a neat idea Kira.. Ship and especially the Terae one is much harder to do. I doubt it would be changed at this point though. I wouldn't want to lose those two lines anyway. There's a reason only 3 people have either the Sarye/Terae lines. I'm not sure about the Sarye side, but our side is very hard to pull off. The most boring quests in Lusternia are most certainly facility/hand quests though, no contest.

This statement is probably one of the most disheartening things I've ever heard. Can the time restrictions be relaxed? I know that they're there for flavor/whatever, but seriously..... egh.

We have in the past asked for a quest that would let it act like a New Moon (because the Admin have occasionally had Rowena call down an effect which lets us do the Rite at not-new-moons), but it's always been denied.

I've never really understood why. It would be a choice between a complicated quest to allow the ritual to be done early, or waiting for the New Moon to do it without that complicated extra step. And this would only be for the Prophecy, it wouldn't work for raising the drums / flame / crow / hart.

Maybe we just need to campaign harder.

For Glomdoring: Perhaps add in a mechanic (a sub-quest of sorts like the nai'Dorin ) that allows Rowena to do her thing and mimic the effects of a New Moon? Make it so that she can only do this ritual after every few hours or so and only when she's beautiful (since she turns to an old crone after the honours quest).

For Celest/Magnagora: I approve. I tried those quests once, only succeeded/had patience to finish the raising of the Ship of the Dead. Then the quest could be really epic, not epic-tedious.

We took a peak and it looks like, when we made Celest's easier in the past, Magnagora's was kind of forgotten - as we effectively halved Celest's required work, we've gone ahead and done the same for Magnagora.

As an afterthought, I do want to mention they're called 'epic quests' for a reason. There's some great rewards at the end, beyond just the notoriety of the epic line - lots of power, a useful artifact. It's not supposed to be easy, everyone and their mother isn't supposed to have the lines, and if someone gets an epic line within a week, well, that's pretty fantastic and means they worked damn hard.

Hard or tedious? The part put forth by Kira appears, at least to me, no less "hard" just more variety. Still long quests. Unless the actual objective is forced time delay via moon cycle or squids, in which case it's WAD.

I'm afraid to ask what 'WAD' means. I have images of brusque mafia men gesturing with a cigar while playing poker, explaining, 'Whacked after death,' as if it were all the explanation needed!

Ahem. Anyways, nobody's achieved either city's epic line yet, so I think it's pretty premature to be suggesting change just yet.

Urban Dictionary tells me it means "works as designed", among other things... lol

We're playing Doom? I've got a couple WADs on an ANCIENT floppy lying around somewhere...

Could you be talked into undoing that and just making the Malacoda mutts count as dogs? I don't know how the Seren rendition runs, but in terms of inane, arbitrary grind-crap, Mag's version definitely trumped Celest's or Glomdoring's. The rewards are too heavy for the hand-over-fist pace at which this is going to run.

I believe that Seren's is actually tougher than Glom's now.

For Celest, and I believe Magnagora too, it's much harder to raise Marilynth/Ship than light a new Star/Necromentate. It can only be done if your side wins the sea war. Since only one side can win the sea war (and thus only one side can get the respective honour) once every... isn't it 12 days between each war? You end up with having to work extra hard to ensure that your side wins the war to even attempt the quest. Lighting the spire is nothing compared to feeding turtles and protecting dolphins (and hunting seawolves at the cost of getting enemied to the Sea of Despair) for the months prior to the war. Changing one honour to require this to be done will also give it a tie to the history of Celest. (Replace Mag related stuff for Magnagora)

The Taerin quests are highly difficult with lots of requirements, is again a "war" quest that requires you to beat out the opposite city (though to a far less extent. All it's talk about here is a planar passage) and hunting that requires you to gather up a group to help you complete it (unless you're a demigod warrior or something equally tanky). Changing one honour to require this to be done will also tie the epic quest to the elemental plane of Water. (Again replace Mag related stuff for Magnagora)

As should be quite clear. I'm not asking for the quests to be made easier. I'm saying that they are too easy as they are. Grinding the spire is easily done within a week for me. I won't be surprised at least if I have the epic honour by the 10th. But then it'll feel quite worthless and unepic. The set-up at the very least is uninspired, poorly flavoured and tied to Celest and way too easy. I'm asking you to please make it more difficult, more varied and give it a stronger flavour.

Ah. Well, I was agreeing that they're too easy as they are when compared to the Commune sides, heh.

So then you should be in full agreement to change Celest's side to something that can't be done AFK.

(I'm serious. I've been toying with the idea and even made some semi-code for an AFK squid harvester. It is, as is, ridiculously easy)

You're welcome to script something and go make lunch while you collect squid.

Simply do not be surprised if you've grown a few new limbs by the time you get back! (Hahaha, get it? Where's Casilu. This is gold!)

I really urge you all to finish the city's quests before you start suggesting changes - only because you don't know what is involved in the epic line after you get the fifth celestian (or Magnagoran) honours, and I'm not tellin'!

No matter what's involved in the epic quest, the set up for it still seems unfinished, lazy and poorly executed. Harvesting squid does not make you a good Celestian. The entrance demands to even be considered the honour "Chosen of Celestia" should be much higher, is my point.

But I'll gladly come back and pester you with "can we change it now"s after I've done it if that's what it takes.