If you're an idiot and just start spamming focus spirit, yeah. And some adjustments and tweaks could be made to the cost and effect clearly, just an idea.

Thing is having the option can't hurt, riiiight? (Well I guess theoretically it could since it might hinder some other changes) Is that significant?


If your mana is already getting low then if you don't cure Choke you'll be dead in no time anyway. Once you've focus spirit and cured Choke then you'd have a burst of mana sipping, I guess? (Although that doesn't work if it's a delayed cure, hm)

Yeah, don't want a cure worse than the disease. Focusing spirit, with SDs having lash, seems like a really fast way to froggy town.


Really, choke needs to be curable, or it needs some real, preventable setup required. Right now, it's just way too much of a "show's over" button.

I'm still for replacing it with some sort of traditional aeon and stripping away most of the cost. SDs are still more offensively geared than MDs, even without unstoppable super-aeon.

Its mine.... I actually contributated something useful!

Absolutely, so long as we get succumb back.

Or, instead of complaining about Choke, you can do what some high tier people have done and code an automated choke curing system, as well as learn to fight in it. There's a reason why people such as Ceren, Narsrim, Shuyin, among others survive well in Choke and seldom die in it. It's not passive effects, that is one part of it. It's because they don't freak out. Plus, since 95% of the Lusternian population relies exclusively on Treant (which doesn't have any good choke curing), that's why many of you lose when dealing with it.

Choke has been nerfed already. It's a less evil incarnate of what it apparently was before. Seriously. Just learn how to fight in it. It is not hard. Especially now that you don't have to deal with passive mana drain. Just keep Marjoram and Myrtle out. Create some highlights, alias, and so forth. Refusal to get better at dealing with a powerful ability is no reason to nerf it yet again.

Oh, not to mention that we'll have Firstaid soon. Which will make Choke a little bit easier. Anyone who thinks Choke is a run or die situation clearly does not understand the foundation of Choke which is being more offensive than the other person. Druid's should have -zero- issue with this. It's that the common population of Druid's can't even do the base REJECT PERSON, ENEMY PERSON while they're in Choke. Which is not our problem. Stop relying on your system to keep you alive, learn to manual. (Maesin had zero issue with me as a Druid in Choke. In fact, he enjoyed fighting me in Choke and won most of the time. Most of you are just doing it wrong.)

I agree. Spar me more Nienla!

We've gone over how badly it stacks the deck in favor of the SD. It needs a cure. It's been a showstopper for way too long. It has less to do with freaking out than you make it, and more to do with it crushing the curing of the vast, vast majority of people, and then having ents wailing on them all the while.

And, the last change arguably buffed choke. It needs a change. It needs to require real set up at least, preferrably some sort of cure.

So, wait. You're saying that, rather than streamlining combat, we should require everyone to write a very complex and time-consuming script in order to reliably deal with one ability? Because, y'know, that's a big bit of what people are complaining about.

Choke doesn't need a cure. Just bloody be more offensive than the Shadowdancer. It is not hard -at all-. I've -never- beaten Ceren inside of Choke. You, as a Geomancer, Esano. Should have zero issue as well. You have Claws.

Akui, you have pits, which Ixion has used famously to escape and elude Choke. Not only that, but he's used darts to his advantage in Choke as well. You can also tackle me away from my Fae, while I'm still choked, stand and assault my legs to keep me prone and on the ground. You can also lay an anvil trap, tackle me into it, and I will be done from Concussion in Choke. As I said, there is nothing wrong with Choke. It's your unwillingness to learn how to fight in it, and your lack of coding ability to add something or make something for your system. Your unwillingness is not an excuse for ANOTHER nerf of the ability, especially when its been shown that high tier have no issue with it.

So we can get rid of illusions because of this too right. Right?

I truly think you're missing this whole "streamlining" idea. We're wanting to make combat more accessible - having ANOTHER system to cure around one skill like Choke is not at all accessible. You're right in that people can be "more offensive than the Shadowdancer" but how do you think someone who just starts Lusternia and wants to get into combat here is going to do that? They'll have their system and their skills and they likely won't know that if they get Choked there's little they can do. They likely won't know that they'll need to beat them to the punch, as it were.

And there is a lot wrong with Choke - you'd have to be ignorant not to see it. It's aeon that goes through quicksilver and has no cure except for leaving the room. But wait! Your fae have many useful utilities like rigormortis to make sure that doesn't happen. Keeping cures outrifted is a great practice, I'll say it, but not everyone - especially the new fighters - are going to think of it.

What I'm trying to say; although I really don't think I hit that point and I'm tired so I really don't care. High tier =/= new person joining. High tier = person that knows what they're doing, how they're going to do it, and what it takes to get it done. Not a new person; streamlining is mainly for the -new- person. Not Ceren, Ixion, Geb, whoever.

There. That's the answer I was looking for. You believe that people should have to write another massively complex addition to their system in order to deal with a single ability. I disagree. Thank you.

And yes, if you want to remove/change illusions, go ahead. Although I would expect suitable alterations to mage/bard (primarily mage) abilities so that they rely less on it, much as you could expect changes to night/wicca if choke was changed.

I can't say illusions is as vital to bard/mage offense as aeon-like effects are to wiccans.

Considering Shadowdancers have lost a lot lately in terms of tone downs, the biggest being the Succumb swap. I still heavily disagree that Choke is an issue to deal with. Every class has a method of dealing with it. There is only one class that comes to mind that could possibly have an issue with it, and that is Celestines. Yet, Razenth does not complain. He instead looks to practice and get better inside of it to use it to his advantage. That is the entire point of Choke. The Shadowdancer has the initial advantage of it. If you want to give Choke another nerf, than increase the eq time of releasing shadows. However, I would like to see either Choke's eq time lowered (which is fairly high), as well as some greater hindering abilities given in either Night or Wicca. Pigwidgeon really doesn't cut it. Though when it comes down it, I really don't see the point.

That's a bad idea.

Hindering abilities?

You have passive afflictions from slaugh. Barghest passively paralyses if they're undeaf (and scourge strips deafness). You have pigwidgeon. You have brownie. You have pixie to stack with sleep hexes. You can have hexes as a whole, which has some excellent hindering afflictions. You have night bonds to stop various magical escape skills (which are often ones which can move you more than one room to make it more difficult to follow). You have brumetower, to stop various druidic abilities that might separate your elevations. You have enchantments or nature vines. You have shieldstun. And there are probably others I missed, too!

Yes. Those abilities, like yours, are superb in Choke. We're referring to outside of Choke hindering long enough to stick it against someone. Paralysis will not do that, nor will Rigormortis for that matter. Night Bonds is helpful, but doesn't stop tumbling. Brumetower stops Druidic abilities, yes. However, it too has a long eq time associated with it. Nature Vines can be writhed out from and moved away before I also regen eq. Same with Shieldstun.

Honestly, if you all want, I can make a list of tactics that every class out there can use to beat a Shadowdancer.

someone should test it, but for some reason I was certain that you could tell that your shadow was taken. might have been in score and not an affliction, not sure. But I guess it's true that you can't undo the shadowstealing, like you can cure limbs with crucify. On the other hand, Choke isn't an instant-kill.

Hmm... what if choke was cured by getting the mana level of the caster down to a certain level? Or by giving them a certain type of affliction? (such as confusion or amnesia or stupidty or maybe just disfigurement?)

I sort of like the idea of disfigurement in that Night gets upset that you are ugly and stops the choke.