It's not those nowadays: it's stacking so many of them that the spam of them is itself an attack. The actual content is pretty much immaterial.

The fact that a Moondancer with Succumb is now complaining about Choke strikes me as hilarious.

No, what is hilarious is you quoting me saying I am fine with it, though I can see viable arguments about it, and then you accusing me of complaining about it.

What is really hilarious is that you, me, and everyone else knows that without choke you are useless in combat and that is your real issue with losing it or seeing it downgraded at all. The fact that you have no actual skill.

If it takes no skill to use choke, it similarly takes no skill to stand and fight in choke.

Anyone here believe that?

You got me.

But I think I'll be able to survive without your e-respect.

It's just the general aggressive behaviour for people who don't agree. Doesn't really add much, though, so probably best just to ignore it.

Can we please do without the posturing and actually discuss the skill?

The only defense I can see in favor of choke so far has been to learn how to code a choke system.

The whole point of streamlining combat, or if I'm wrong, please correct me, is to make it easier for new people to get in on the action.

Not everybody is a coding wizard. Nor should they have to be, in my humble opinion, in order to participate in combat!

I am by no means an expert on Lusternia combat, but I think, if I can be generous, I would place myself squarely in the bottom of the middle tier. When choked with afflictions, I pause my system and attempt to manual my way out. I have never been successful at this. However, the couple times I was choked without afflictions, I was able to escape, and one time I even won, but that was a fluke, in my opinion, because the SD choking me did so in trees without protection scroll up.

While I do not think that Choke is a win button, I do believe that it needs either a cure to get out of it, such as cleanse, or some sort of prerequisite to pull it off, in addition to shadows.

Better plan is to turn off your system, unless you plan on telling your system how to fight for you. If your system runs in choke, and your system won't automate offense, you're going to lose every single time. There's no way you can expect a different outcome.

Towards the middle of my post, I said I pause my system and manually try to cure out.

You shouldn't have a system running in Choke, really. There are individuals like Ceren who have coded themselves an automated choke curing system, but those arent foolproof.

Just learn to manual. Treant isn't always going to be your instaescape-instasurvival. Nor should it be.

As an additional note, this is about suggestions to streamline combat. Not a thread to complain about the skills you have to go up against on a regular basis in hopes that they get nerfed. If anything, I learned how to fight as a Shadowdancer without a system manualing in Choke. It actually made combat accessible for me. I will be honest in the fact that the last five pages of this thread of been nothing but a cry for a nerf. :/

Whether or not the last 5 pages have been crying for a nerf is irrelevant - people feel it is a serious problem, therefore they're discussing it.

However, it's taken up enough of this thread that it warrants it's own. Go ahead and start one if you all feel it deserves further discussion.

If it continues here there'll be warn bumps/temporary post-bans etc.

Never mind

more pointing out that their active skills can be stripped in that situation as well as their passives which gives another downside to the situation, though I think there is some skill to protect against knife or make it take longer to sever but it drains mana or something.

Anyway, could we just move all the choke commentary to a different thread or something?

The whole point is, with streamlining combat, you shouldn't HAVE to learn to manual. Lusternian combat already has a CRAZY learning curve even if you buy a system that is really good, cures everything and all you have to do is worry about offence. Even in -that- situation it's still a big barrier. Having to learn to manual cure on top of that? Makes the curve more like a veritcal line and less like a curve.

Lusternian combat before choke came along was already a very complicated ordeal, and I believe the whole choke thing now it's pretty much all vs glom is one barrier that keeps a lot of people out of the game. I know for me personally, there are a couple of things coming back, but having to deal with choke as a constant factor in open combat is a major one for me.

This is actually what we were going for with saying something needs to change in Choke. It's not because we want to nerf it, it's not because we want to make it unusable, it's because we want to STREAMLINE COMBAT-- for this exact reason. Manual curing shouldn't be a learning requirement (as was said) that someone just joining the combat side of Lusternia should have to focus on while they have much more to focus on.

Yes manual-healing may be a good habit for if your system that you rely on breaks or whatever hypothetical circumstance is present; but that's not what streamlining is wanting to accomplish. I think it's meant to make Lusternia-combat less of this hulking mass of complexities and more user friendly. Less advanced, and more accessible for anyone who wants it to be.

What? Shouldn't learn how to learn manual curing?What, then, is the reason for the Healing part in the collegiums? the help scrolls for healing? If we want an entirely automated curing system with no loopholes for the sake of 'streamlining combat', why not allow automated offensives as well? I agree that learning combat is different from learning how to debate, or to quest - but people should still be able to figure out how to cure themselves with or without a system.

I totally want to see an automated offense. AI ftw.

Some of us have those, given certain conditions heh

I made an automated offence once, on a test server. It was decent but a good parry/stance system fools it. I would LOVE to see people try to use an automated offence, if you can develop an AI system that will beat someone with any ability or experience in lusternian combat, you should be working for a top AI firm.

BTW: The purpose of help curelist and healing collegium files, is so that your newbies know HOW to cure their afflictions. It gives the basis point of building systems, a general understanding. I could write thousands of words about curing, and pros + cons of different routine types. Seriously it's HUGE.

and if you want to learn manual curing, go ahead try to manual cure against a knight who's attacking you every balance, along with parry and stancing. The game is built to be cured by a system. It is suboptimal for you to manual cure, some people are successful with it (jelaludin used it for a bit) but part of the game is building a system.

Debating etc is very simple and you can use aliases, but seriously combat can come down to .5 sec intervals where if you don't move in time, get your cure off or hinder your enemy you WILL die. The skills are designed to mess with systems, if you wanna play a game with no system, go play wow. No affliction based kills, just damage or die.

Again, building a system is complicated enough, but anyone can do it once they understand the basics. Manual curing while persecuting your own offence? no thank you sir. You are meant to have a system. Even newbies have a system. You should not have to learn manual curing, there is enough going on without it.

Actually yeah lots of people do. Discern someone's mana? if <50% absolve else leech. Same with the stag ability under 25% max hp = instakill. Discern health, kill.