Unknown2009-10-14 22:44:50
QUOTE (Estarra @ Oct 14 2009, 06:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
One problem that arises is how to prevent people from gaming such a system. If I was the demesne holder or perhaps doing an instakill, then 4 of my friends could simply declare me and then I'd be immune from attack. However many ifs, ands and buts we put in to try to avoid gaming "close combat" scenarios, you and I both know there would be ways to find exploits--and we've seen that trying to plug exploits from systems often turns into a neverending headache.
Well, the exploit now is that zergs win, more numbers, more win, we see that now. It's turning into a Never-ending Story as it stands, but to your gaming the system, the solution is that if all of your friends are targetting you, who are they going to attack? If an instakill is coming, there's no stopping it, unless it's a build up, i.e soulless, something else.
This is just a very vague idea and I am sure it could become more complicated and maybe even better the more ideas that are thrown out.
Gregori2009-10-14 22:51:31
I also disagree to scaling 'zerg's' It's a horrible idea and if you have the numbers then you have the numbers. In some cases the only way to win is to 'zerg'.
Not to mention if one person is dieing to 4 people then it doesn't matter if 10 attack him.
Not to mention if one person is dieing to 4 people then it doesn't matter if 10 attack him.
Unknown2009-10-14 22:57:13
QUOTE (Gregori @ Oct 14 2009, 06:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I also disagree to scaling 'zerg's' It's a horrible idea and if you have the numbers then you have the numbers. In some cases the only way to win is to 'zerg'.
Not to mention if one person is dieing to 4 people then it doesn't matter if 10 attack him.
Not to mention if one person is dieing to 4 people then it doesn't matter if 10 attack him.
I would agree with that if it weren't for the fact that everyone, their alt and their alt's grandma hops to the organization that will get them less killed, more buffs, and a generally more 'fun' time.
Unknown2009-10-14 23:01:34
Then that's the player's fault, not the zerg's.
That happens everywhere, people gravitate to power, and it's up to you (or your org) to make itself nicer for x person to join.
Let's not confuse 'streamlining combat' with 'wah i'm not having as much fun now as I was 3 months ago'.
P.S. About time on lash/succumb switch.
That happens everywhere, people gravitate to power, and it's up to you (or your org) to make itself nicer for x person to join.
Let's not confuse 'streamlining combat' with 'wah i'm not having as much fun now as I was 3 months ago'.
P.S. About time on lash/succumb switch.
Daganev2009-10-14 23:03:50
QUOTE (Sojiro @ Oct 14 2009, 04:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Then that's the player's fault, not the zerg's.
That happens everywhere, people gravitate to power, and it's up to you (or your org) to make itself nicer for x person to join.
Let's not confuse 'streamlining combat' with 'wah i'm not having as much fun now as I was 3 months ago'.
That happens everywhere, people gravitate to power, and it's up to you (or your org) to make itself nicer for x person to join.
Let's not confuse 'streamlining combat' with 'wah i'm not having as much fun now as I was 3 months ago'.
However, that creates cults of personality, rather than cults of organization ideals.
It's pretty messed up actually when 1 or 2 people switch orgs, and it changes the entire population of said orgs.
If the cause for that situation is zergs, then maybe something should be done about it.
But if the cause of that is just the nature of lusternia, well oh well then.
Either way, it's off topic though.
Unknown2009-10-14 23:16:50
QUOTE (Sojiro @ Oct 14 2009, 07:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Then that's the player's fault, not the zerg's.
That happens everywhere, people gravitate to power, and it's up to you (or your org) to make itself nicer for x person to join.
Let's not confuse 'streamlining combat' with 'wah i'm not having as much fun now as I was 3 months ago'.
P.S. About time on lash/succumb switch.
That happens everywhere, people gravitate to power, and it's up to you (or your org) to make itself nicer for x person to join.
Let's not confuse 'streamlining combat' with 'wah i'm not having as much fun now as I was 3 months ago'.
P.S. About time on lash/succumb switch.
I'm having oodles of fun.
Still no mention about Bards.
Daganev2009-10-15 00:01:45
QUOTE (Estarra @ Oct 14 2009, 04:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Well, if you can articulate exactly how such a general combat skill (I'm guessing) would work, we'd be happy to consider it. This doesn't sound like people would have to "declare" others (and thus count up who's been declared) or that only "certain skills" wouldn't work. It also seems like a heavy mana drain limits the skill. I'm guessing the skill makes a sort of list of whoever attacks the target and the list stops counting depending on the number of exits. Then only those on the list can attack. I assume the list clears a person every 60 seconds or something if they don't attack subsequently. I also assume that it doesn't stop any passive effects. Anyway, it may be something we'd consider though honestly I'm not convinced this really would stop the effectiveness of "zerg" attacks except in very limited situations.
This has inspired me, for a new idea, that might solve this issue.
The new Trans Planar skill:
BindThread:
Bind Thread creates a defense, which binds the thread of anybody who attacks you to yourself. If you have bound more than 4 people to yourself, each attack done to you, does an increasing amount of damage to all the people bound to you. If a person does not attack you for 6 seconds, the bond is lost.
So lets say there are 6 people webbing you. Your defense would bind each of them to your self, through their threads, and you would then do 6 * say, 500 damage, to each person who is bound to you, anytime one of them attacks you. If 10 people bind to you, that would basically mean instant death to all of them if they attack you.
This way, instead of preventing people from attacking, it just gives them good reason not to.
Casilu2009-10-15 00:03:46
QUOTE (daganev @ Oct 14 2009, 05:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This has inspired me, for a new idea, that might solve this issue.
The new Trans Planar skill:
BindThread:
Bind Thread creates a defense, which binds the thread of anybody who attacks you to yourself. If you have bound more than 4 people to yourself, each attack done to you, does an increasing amount of damage to all the people bound to you. If a person does not attack you for 6 seconds, the bond is lost.
So lets say there are 6 people webbing you. Your defense would bind each of them to your self, through their threads, and you would then do 6 * say, 500 damage, to each person who is bound to you, anytime one of them attacks you. If 10 people bind to you, that would basically mean instant death to all of them if they attack you.
This way, instead of preventing people from attacking, it just gives them good reason not to.
The new Trans Planar skill:
BindThread:
Bind Thread creates a defense, which binds the thread of anybody who attacks you to yourself. If you have bound more than 4 people to yourself, each attack done to you, does an increasing amount of damage to all the people bound to you. If a person does not attack you for 6 seconds, the bond is lost.
So lets say there are 6 people webbing you. Your defense would bind each of them to your self, through their threads, and you would then do 6 * say, 500 damage, to each person who is bound to you, anytime one of them attacks you. If 10 people bind to you, that would basically mean instant death to all of them if they attack you.
This way, instead of preventing people from attacking, it just gives them good reason not to.
That would instakill a level 80 faeling at 6 people. That would also make some people impossible to kill in group combat.
Daganev2009-10-15 00:06:32
QUOTE (casilu @ Oct 14 2009, 05:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
That would instakill a level 80 faeling at 6 people. That would also make some people impossible to kill in group combat.
4 people isn't enough?
Casilu2009-10-15 00:08:20
QUOTE (daganev @ Oct 14 2009, 05:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
4 people isn't enough?
Sometimes ten isn't enough to beat them in any sort of normal amount of time. Massive health pools + gigantic resistances mean that some people can tank for long periods of time even against a fairly large number of people.
Gregori2009-10-15 00:15:35
QUOTE (casilu @ Oct 14 2009, 06:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Sometimes ten isn't enough to beat them in any sort of normal amount of time. Massive health pools + gigantic resistances mean that some people can tank for long periods of time even against a fairly large number of people.
Sure, if you have 10 novices against 1 demigod you won't be killing the demigod. However, given skillset ranges, there is no reason why 10 people should ever not be able to kill 1 person. Unless said person is focused purely on running and healing. Even then though, with 10 people you should have enough hindering attacks that most can focus on the kill while a couple focus on just keeping the person still.
Celina2009-10-15 19:35:28
QUOTE (Gregori @ Oct 15 2009, 01:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The situation is completely different with succumb being in MD hands. It means that SD can finally use that third skillset they are supposed to take and not just choke, scourge, fae, succumb, count to 10, toadcurse.
I dislike bad information from biased sources.
If that is all it takes to toad you, then you need to do a couple things. 1: Practice more. 2: Fix your obviously lack luster system if it can't even cure that. If you can't code a choke system, much like I can't, learn to manual in choke.
I've seen so many people freeze up, crash, and burn the moment I choke and it's pretty hilarious how reliable choke is based purely on the fact that 95% of people absolutely can't deal with it and refuse to learn how to. On the other hand, I've seen systems, one in particular, that tanked aurawarp/choke/pinleg/fae/shieldstun without getting into toad range. Funny how that works.
If I ever switch guilds, I am perfectly content fighting in choke. Why? I learned how to.
If you want to give us lash, I'm all for it. People will bitch about that too after they see how fast we can toad in groups.
Unknown2009-10-15 19:38:07
QUOTE (Celina @ Oct 15 2009, 12:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If you want to give us lash, I'm all for it. People will bitch about that too after they see how fast we can toad in groups.
OH GOD DONT GIVE OUT OUR SECRET TACTICS
Xavius2009-10-16 01:11:06
QUOTE (Gregori @ Oct 15 2009, 07:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Considering the only time I have been toaded is in groups, I would say my system handles you just fine. This doesn't change the fact that toadcursing is as simple as watching passives and then hitting the curse. Everyone knows this and denying it only makes you look stupid.
If we're throwing around argumenta ad hominem, it looks awfully silly that you're saying, one sentence after the other, that "toadcurse only involves watching passives" and "I don't get toadcursed," which seems to imply that you don't actually have experience fighting people who know how to stick a toadcurse. Or are lying. Whichever.
Gregori2009-10-16 02:11:58
QUOTE (Xavius @ Oct 15 2009, 07:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Or are lying.
Damn, you caught me. I am lying.
Celina2009-10-16 05:18:05
QUOTE (Gregori @ Oct 15 2009, 07:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Considering the only time I have been toaded is in groups, I would say my system handles you just fine. This doesn't change the fact that toadcursing is as simple as watching passives and then hitting the curse. Everyone knows this and denying it only makes you look stupid.
As for the "toad in groups" comment. Umm hello? Everything is easier in groups. If you couldn't toad in a group I would be worried.
Thank you, have a nice day.
As for the "toad in groups" comment. Umm hello? Everything is easier in groups. If you couldn't toad in a group I would be worried.
Thank you, have a nice day.
Uh, it is? Well you do make a point, you might die to passives and curse, but those of us with solid systems and combat experience don't. Usually takes a bit more. I suppose Xavius already pointed out the flaw in your argument. (Guess who hasn't been toadcursed in RL years)
My point, Gregi, is that it's much easier to toad in groups with lash than succumb. You're a champion and an envoy with an ego the size of Saturn. I would hop you could figure out why.
You kind of sound like Romero when he says "all druids have to do is sap, their demesne does the work for them." You just have bad curing/don't know what you are doing. Fix it and stop bitching.
As for Malarious's escape from 5 crucifies. 1, if he was in glom, he was an bard, and an acrobat. A skill called contort. Kind of important to mention that. Secondly, if it was 5 people all hitting him, they were doing something wrong. Has nothing to do with Malarious or crucify not being "as bad as everyone says."
QUOTE (Estarra @ Oct 15 2009, 09:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Should scarab, throatlock and/or homeostasis simply give anorexia? (Granted it doesn't make RP sense but oh well!)
Passive anorexia in choke. I could go for that. Might be crazy OP with succumb but eh, who cares.
Gregori2009-10-16 05:37:28
QUOTE (Celina @ Oct 15 2009, 11:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
those of us with solid systems and combat experience don't.
Of everything you said this is the only thing that caught my eye as worth commenting on. Everything else was usual Celina trash.
Merik2009-10-16 05:39:20
So where's the comment?
Celina2009-10-16 05:40:23
QUOTE (Gregori @ Oct 16 2009, 12:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Of everything you said this is the only thing that caught my eye as worth commenting on. Everything else was usual Celina trash.
You...want to argue that I don't have combat experience?
Xavius2009-10-16 05:48:40
You know, Greggy-poo, I'm not exactly Celina's biggest fan, and I vividly remember the days when I could curbstomp her while nodding off at the keyboard...but those days are no more, and there's no real purpose to pretending.