Llandros2009-10-26 23:50:36
It's hard to say because it's not a big deal to me.
I'd be happy with even the smallest of token changes but i don't think that will be true for everyone.
I'd be happy with even the smallest of token changes but i don't think that will be true for everyone.
Gregori2009-10-26 23:51:35
There is no trade off needed. This isn't a change to Cubix. This is a change to Distortion. Cubix still functions exactly as intended.
Xenthos2009-10-26 23:55:10
QUOTE (Gregori @ Oct 26 2009, 07:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
There is no trade off needed. This isn't a change to Cubix. This is a change to Distortion. Cubix still functions exactly as intended.
To be fair, it's more of a change to Cubix if it is made to work on Shrine Distortion as that can potentially be done anywhere, and a 20s time in enemy territory base is a change to cubix as well. That said, I don't think it needs to get anything back for the latter, and I'm still hoping Shrine Distort isn't made to modify it (nexus distort only).
Gregori2009-10-26 23:56:44
QUOTE (Xenthos @ Oct 26 2009, 05:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
To be fair, it's more of a change to Cubix if it is made to work on Shrine Distortion as that can potentially be done anywhere, and a 20s time in enemy territory base is a change to cubix as well. That said, I don't think it needs to get anything back for the latter, and I'm still hoping Shrine Distort isn't made to modify it (nexus distort only).
Oh, well, I agree. It shouldn't work for shrine distort, that's just way to easy to use and pay for.
Unknown2009-10-27 00:04:14
Didn't have time, or rather, was too lazy to look through all the posts, but what is exactly wrong with kick and run raids? It's annoying, yes, but what harm does it cost rather than wasting 15-20 seconds of your time? And having said raider leaving with a demon, an angel, a daughter or lady. Also I highly doubt most will use 200k(?) essence to defend against one person. The topic seems to be discussing something a little more in-depth that what is being mentioned and that by "kick and run" you mean "stopping any Narsrim/Krellan like person from cubixing out when he or she gets zerged".
Xenthos2009-10-27 00:10:45
QUOTE (Ruiku @ Oct 26 2009, 08:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Didn't have time, or rather, was too lazy to look through all the posts, but what is exactly wrong with kick and run raids? It's annoying, yes, but what harm does it cost rather than wasting 15-20 seconds of your time? And having said raider leaving with a demon, an angel, a daughter or lady. Also I highly doubt most will use 200k(?) essence to defend against one person. The topic seems to be discussing something a little more in-depth that what is being mentioned and that by "kick and run" you mean "stopping any Narsrim/Krellan like person from cubixing out when he or she gets zerged".
You mean, beyond the fact that 1 person is interrupting what a whole pile of people are doing, and tends to do it repeatedly over a very long time? 1 person disrupting the gameplay of an organization is an "unintended effect" of Cubix being instant, I'd say.
Llandros2009-10-27 00:11:43
If its just nexus distort adding a minute of being still to cubix out then i would actually be ok with that with no trade off needed. 
Unknown2009-10-27 00:11:54
Kick-and-run raids waste more than 15-20 seconds of time, for more than one person. They are typically someone who's bored and trying to bait people into fighting them. They don't add anything to the game and just piss people off.
Daganev2009-10-27 00:13:19
does distortion only work on enemies?
Meaning, would people who are neutral or friendly have to wait 1 minute to leave a place that's currently being raided?
That seems like a bit of a problem.
And it sounds like it should be 20 seconds + 1 min. (for the greatpent concerns)
Meaning, would people who are neutral or friendly have to wait 1 minute to leave a place that's currently being raided?
That seems like a bit of a problem.
And it sounds like it should be 20 seconds + 1 min. (for the greatpent concerns)
Unknown2009-10-27 00:17:23
I've personally been zerged(4-5) in under a minute, if everyone wants to waste a crap ton of essence to frankly, kill, one person as they laugh at your waste of essence and saunter out of the shrine effect or defile the room, then be my guest, I see it as rather minute compared to other things that should be looked at as far as raids, but maybe I'm overlooking a few things!
Gregori2009-10-27 00:17:51
QUOTE (Zarquan @ Oct 26 2009, 06:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Kick-and-run raids waste more than 15-20 seconds of time, for more than one person. They are typically someone who's bored and trying to bait people into fighting them. They don't add anything to the game and just piss people off.
The really, really annoying ones kick, run, then stand in a peaced room for 5 minutes till org declare has worn off... then do it all over again. They are not looking for a fight, they are looking to just annoy people all day long.
Which is possibly why the topic of shrine distort came up. Since the common culprits in the past used to defile until someone came, cubix out, then stand at Avechna until declare wore off. Though the best fix for that would be just to change peaced rooms to eject anyone who has got an open declare running. Make it like Newton.
Avechna, the Avenger lifts you by the scruff of the neck and casts you down the mountain.
Avechna, the Avenger says, "Those who start trouble shall not hide here."
Unknown2009-10-27 00:39:20
Good idea Gregori.
Punishing the 'true' one-man raiders for the extremely annoying acts of a very small percentage seems a bit big. Not to mention that this being up will change all aspects of raiding, including big man group raids on Cosmic Lords or Avatars, okay, so we killed the Supernals, now.. how are we going to leave?
Punishing the 'true' one-man raiders for the extremely annoying acts of a very small percentage seems a bit big. Not to mention that this being up will change all aspects of raiding, including big man group raids on Cosmic Lords or Avatars, okay, so we killed the Supernals, now.. how are we going to leave?
Xenthos2009-10-27 00:41:28
QUOTE (Ruiku @ Oct 26 2009, 08:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Good idea Gregori.
Punishing the 'true' one-man raiders for the extremely annoying acts of a very small percentage seems a bit big. Not to mention that this being up will change all aspects of raiding, including big man group raids on Cosmic Lords or Avatars, okay, so we killed the Supernals, now.. how are we going to leave?
Punishing the 'true' one-man raiders for the extremely annoying acts of a very small percentage seems a bit big. Not to mention that this being up will change all aspects of raiding, including big man group raids on Cosmic Lords or Avatars, okay, so we killed the Supernals, now.. how are we going to leave?
By... pressing the cubix and waiting 60s while the group trying to get at you has to either 1) Break your demesne (giving you time to leave,) or 2) Charge into the demesne and try to stop you? At which point you should kill them and then leave.
Unknown2009-10-27 00:44:10
A lot can happen in a 60 second teleporting situation, you could be zapped, causing you to sip, for one, there is a lot that can be done to keep someone from leaving within 60 seconds and a meld is not always a factor on the raiding side(highly unlikely, but not a permanent factor)
Xenthos2009-10-27 00:45:28
QUOTE (Ruiku @ Oct 26 2009, 08:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
A lot can happen in a 60 second teleporting situation, you could be zapped, causing you to sip, for one, there is a lot that can be done to keep someone from leaving within 60 seconds and a meld is not always a factor on the raiding side(highly unlikely, but not a permanent factor)
SPRINKLE SALT ON TELEPORTER ?
It can take more than 60s to break a demesne, especially one done well.
I seriously don't get your issue. In Forests, all you have to do is just walk to the archway. You don't even have to prepare with a rift. :/
Gregori2009-10-27 00:48:42
There are also ways to completely bypass losing the supermob corpses, so if you do get killed you don't lose the mob anyways.
Gregori2009-10-27 00:53:14
Does Nexus distort even work off prime? I thought it was prime org territory only.
Which could be another reason for shrine distort being on the list if that is the case. The solution there is just double the cost of shrine distort and only make cubix affecting work in org territory.
Which could be another reason for shrine distort being on the list if that is the case. The solution there is just double the cost of shrine distort and only make cubix affecting work in org territory.
Unknown2009-10-27 00:53:50
Should probably have that escape ship handy. Or start making your way to the archway, there are quite a few ways to get out. And I mean really, during big raids, all the big effects like gravity, wrath, distort, and such go up, and getting out in one piece is pretty much impossible. Discretionaries don't help there. Whenever the big zerg comes to kill smobs, we go with the knowledge that not everyone will get out alive, the important thing is that we do not lose the mob that we spent all this effort to kill.
Like I said before, cosmic is probably a bigger problem than ethereal given the lack of archways, but I'd totally be down for an archway that dumps you straight to astral too.
I think the current consensus is that in enemy territory, cubixing should take 20 seconds, when in distort, it should take 1 minute 20 seconds, and nexus distort only.
Personally, I'd be fine with shrine distort doing it too, but shrine distort should be increased in price then. Or only delay for 20 seconds.
Edit: Gregori said it shorter.
Like I said before, cosmic is probably a bigger problem than ethereal given the lack of archways, but I'd totally be down for an archway that dumps you straight to astral too.
I think the current consensus is that in enemy territory, cubixing should take 20 seconds, when in distort, it should take 1 minute 20 seconds, and nexus distort only.
Personally, I'd be fine with shrine distort doing it too, but shrine distort should be increased in price then. Or only delay for 20 seconds.
Edit: Gregori said it shorter.
Vathael2009-10-27 01:06:17
QUOTE (Estarra @ Oct 26 2009, 02:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
As most of you are aware, the subject of raiding raises heated emotions on both sides of the issue. We've been discussing something among ourselves which could impact raiding so we'd like your feedback.
We have pondering if distortion fields (both shrine and discretionary) should stop escaping by dimensional devices (prisms, cubixes, etc.) and also stop use of the demigod haven ability. However, there are some concerns that this would shut down raiding altogether. Thus, alternatively, we have pondered that when distortion fields are up that in order to use dimensional devices and the demigod haven ability, the person would have to remain still for one minute before the teleportation occurs. This would probably prevent the "kick and run" tactic and make raiding more dangerous insofar that raiders would not have a quick escape clause (at least if the distortion field is active).
So feel free to comment but please try to be polite and to the point. I'll be monitoring this thread and have zero tolerance for catty, sarcastic, caustic or unproductive responses. Thanks!
We have pondering if distortion fields (both shrine and discretionary) should stop escaping by dimensional devices (prisms, cubixes, etc.) and also stop use of the demigod haven ability. However, there are some concerns that this would shut down raiding altogether. Thus, alternatively, we have pondered that when distortion fields are up that in order to use dimensional devices and the demigod haven ability, the person would have to remain still for one minute before the teleportation occurs. This would probably prevent the "kick and run" tactic and make raiding more dangerous insofar that raiders would not have a quick escape clause (at least if the distortion field is active).
So feel free to comment but please try to be polite and to the point. I'll be monitoring this thread and have zero tolerance for catty, sarcastic, caustic or unproductive responses. Thanks!
I'm not fond of nerfing artifacts in such a manner. Perhaps another solution would be to make distort abilities similar to a carcer effect for cubix/medallion/havens etc, chance to fail and lost eq or something so you can't just spam it. "Your concentration on parting the blah blah blah has been disrupted by the field of distortion in the area."
Xenthos2009-10-27 01:16:02
QUOTE (Gregori @ Oct 26 2009, 08:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Does Nexus distort even work off prime? I thought it was prime org territory only.
Which could be another reason for shrine distort being on the list if that is the case. The solution there is just double the cost of shrine distort and only make cubix affecting work in org territory.
Which could be another reason for shrine distort being on the list if that is the case. The solution there is just double the cost of shrine distort and only make cubix affecting work in org territory.
They recently made Nexus Distort work off-Prime.
(By "recently" I think a bit over a month ago)
