I couldn't find a use for any Shofangi grapple except one post-momentum. They need a better way to end than some bleeding.

Last I checked, bards could play songs and use glamours even while grappled with an armlock, so it's not at all hindering for bards unless you want to move or stand up for certain grapples.

You can't use glamours or music while prone.

Grapples don't prone, though.

I don't know which grapple you're talking about, but Ninjakari doesn't have any grapple that builds momentum on upkeep.

Ah ok. I thought that meant it proned. *blush*

I wasn't talking about locks as in the Kata Lock skill or some other form of grapple, I was discussing how you can slit the throat as a one handed action. IE, soft lock, hard lock, for curing.

In case you think this is a reason not to writhe: you don't have to do the followup if they're still grappled when you regain eq, you can just do normal moves. Since they're all 2h now and stop less stuff, their usefulness decreased a lot so if you had to do the followup you should actually almost never writhe (which is why it isn't the case).

Pretty much, age of the hug monk right now for most specs until they get the momentum, then they steamroll. I'm not exactly sure what the last change was suppose to accomplish since it hasn't really done much to stop it, only delay it.

In my personal opinion, monks have been downgraded, and I don't see how anyone can deny that fact. I was able to achieve MUCH more pre most recent momentum changes. The fact that we can "steamroll" at higher momentum levels is paired with the fact that we can be hindered easily enough and dropped back to a useless momentum level. If you think monks are that easy still, I invite you to become one and say the same thing.

...I am, I was Champion twice and envoy once. We've spoken on that issue before. I guess you just have a short memory.

I've been a Tahtetso since the start. I've fought in all the various types of monk combat since they were released and I'd like to think have a decent grasp on what each one's strengths were. My arguement is that the changes that were put forth with momentum did not result in the desired goal of the committee, but shifted the focus of monk combat to momentum 5. Hell, at no other point in monk history has the archetype been more lethal than a monk at momentem five can be. More ka, most afflictions are regeneration afflictions, and a majority of those are one handed strikes. Prior to this most regeneration cures were two handed actions at a prohibitive cost or other requirement (like vibrations, which were harder to gain than momentum is). To say monks do no have more afflictions and greater ease in using those afflictions in their current format is silly.

We've migrated monks from stun and unarmed fighting to weapon fighting with momentum and regeneration cures. Personally, something badly needed to be done with stun at the time, and I was orginally excited for momentum as a means of standardizing higher tier afflictions across all monk guilds. However, with the inclusion of variable ka the costs shift from ka to momentum, which is itself very easy to retain or regain.

I'd say the difference between dishing out regeneration afflictions nonstop and having to regain momentum and also having to invest power to not have to dedicate an arm to razing in between is pretty significant. So the change did accomplish something to put monks more on a level with other classes.

Haha, I've completely forgotton you were a monk. As for retaining momentum, I'm not sure who you've been fighting. I don't disagree that we have killer afflictions at momentum 4-5, but what else would you rather afflict with when momentum can be stopped so easily. Getting to those levels aren't that hard, but I'm pretty sure any class (depending on person) can hinder you enough to drop your momentum back to 0. If you want to remove the high end afflictions, remove momentum. If you only do the former, monks will be severely underpowered.

From what I've heard, it takes 7 seconds of no hitting for a monk to lose one level of momentum. Average time to attack for a monk is in the realm of 2 seconds. How many people can keep you from making any sort of aggressive action for 7 seconds? Even if they do manage it (somehow), you need but attack once for that to be undone in terms of momentum gain. The math suggests that reaching mo5 is more or less inevitable unless your opponent runs or chucks you in a pit. To say that any class can hinder you enough to get you to 0 momentum leaves me skeptical at best.

EDIT: Actually, on further reflection, your claim sounds like any class can drop a monk from 5 mo to 0 if they do it right. That would take 35 seconds of complete action-lock.

Tervic, many people I've fought have been able to hinder me severely, expecially since I'm no longer an acrobat. Between shieldstunning/entanglement/paralysis/passives and sometimes blackout, a player can shut me down for a good 10-15 seconds. If you don't go for a fast kill and actually strategize, you're sure to either kill me or get me running. You do not wait till the monk is mo5 to start bringing his momentum down. In fact, you shouldn't even wait till momentum 3. Therefore it doesn't matter how much time it takes to bring a monk down from momentum 5, you'd probably be locked up and dead by then, it matters that you do it early on, and keep doing it to keep momentum down, while keeping up an offense while they're still trying to get to momentum 0 to 3. I find your point moot.

Well, to be fair, it isn't like we don't have means to make sure we at least gain some sort of momentum. Stealth users can waylay for easy starts, Tahtetso can polevault for a first strike, ect. Also, now all monks have a means to start off at mo1 without even using forms. For example, I could tahto'sho ground, mo1, polevault in raze/kick mo2, and tahto'sho the target to be at mo4 only using two forms. All other monk guilds can as well.

Edit : Well, except the polevault bit. Each has their own method.

There are combatants that don't take Acrobatics? O.o

I don't, I like psychometabolism. It is nice and tanky, and now useful against mangle mods and mage/druids.

Monks are still OP. As long as their afflictions rely on the attacker rather than the attacked, it will remain this way. Hindering is a normal part of combat, but with monks, such a large focus must be put on hindering that killing a monk can be difficult because you can't spare the time to stop webbing/shieldstun/etc etc.

Sure they "suck" at low momentum, though grapple chains are kind of retarded.

Yeah, it doesn't help there are multiple sorts of redundancies within the skills themselves. Like.. Tahtetso has something like 5+ different ways to prone within a form, all as different moves. Some are prone, some are the result of the affliction they give, some are prone + affliction. For example, it is possible to prone/stun/break chest for mo1 on a chest strike. Or you could break the jaw... Afflictions just don't really balance out well across the tiers.