PvP is not the purpose for all demigods! (At least, that's what I keep hearing.) Anyway, the whole goal of this exercise is to give a disincentive against raiding so I'm not sure I understand the point.

Er.... wouldn't an essence shop then mean that people with more essence will tend to be more powerful? If so, then scaling should -definitely- go in, perhaps scaled around essence spent instead of essence pool, but that's details.


Holy pants I thought you were Jack for a moment.


Or maybe scale the amount lost to the number of Nexus Guardian Healthwarps they have on them when they die, plus an increased base amount for the death in enemy territory. That'd be an interesting way to tie a whole bunch of ideas together.

Good! That's what it's supposed to be!

@Estarra

Have you considered also adding in no conglutination in enemy org territory? The second suggestion helps with Demis/Ascendents, but not with anybody in the 80-99 range, who can do just as much damage.

I think that may be going too far. Plus, it would simply favor those who can lich, etc. and not the common person who just relies on conglutination. I may consider an increased xp loss in enemy territory though.

I don't know who've you spoken to, but my jaw is on the floor. There is little reason to invest the time which is the most valuable currency for a player, to acquire the statistics to tank mobs and players.

I'll say this here and now. My hypothesis is that if you implement this policy you will see demigods and such downgrading to titan just to raid. And people will leave.

If you want to have a disincentive against raiding I can see two mechanisms. Either a ticker limiting the number of times a player can set foot onto enemy territory (3x per day or whatever) or a time mechanism. Either limit the time when planes can be attacked (and get rid of ripple to compensate) or limit the amount of time a combatant can be on an enemy plane (already established in part through insanity). How about this. Every kill in enemy territory ups your insanity by a fixed amount. This will limit raiding without imposing a draconian penalty.

Edit: And dedicated Raiders will buy more Circlets of Lucidity. Hey look at that! Solved the cashflow issue too.

everybody has access to vitae, though

Which would mean two deaths.. not one, plus the praying.

but that goes for those with lich as well, so I don't see your point...

I'm not fighter, but your ideas sound terrible.

Limiting the number of times one can enter a plane is EXTREMELY draconian in its own right. It makes the investment in planar less useful to a degree as well if you are barred from parts of it for peaceful purposes ie harvesting. Similarly having a timer will only encourage lightning quick zergs or require multiple attacks of said zerg.

Time limits wouldn't take into account different time zones around the world, not everyone is American believe it or not and the times set would invariably be US prime time for maximum 'fairness'. The discretionaries are also a fine existing mechanism.

Insanity exists but is no deterent, so perhaps that may help and I agree with the last point.

In response to a way earlier post by Esano, dying should never be a trigger for a penalty upping, since it is extremely easy to escape without dying. Narsrim (and Vathael too if I remember correctly) rarely ever dies in his raids, so would never be penalised by such standards. It would need to be based on kills for denizens/players or time for it to have any meaning.

If they rarely ever die then the currently planned disincentives (increased losses on death) are flawed in their basic idea, and we'd need to look at another mechanism entirely.

Yup I'm a terrible person. I eat babies and take five seconds to a respond to posts without memorizing the primary sources. Also, I think some glommies are cool and I have a shrine in my apartment to Nocht.


All good points



Make it random. 1-3 per day.



Sarcasm aside the purpose was to provide brainstorming material to discuss alternate mechanisms to loss of 5% essence. Failure (death) is its own loss. Excess experience loss limits the entire game's appeal rather than limiting the appeal of raiding specifically.

What kind of raids are those changes supposed to discourage? Long raids where a melder and three or four others sit on the opposing plane for a few hours? Or where one raider goes in and kicks something/kicks a lot of stuff and runs when more than one person shows up?

Don't think the changes will affect the second at all. The first? Iunno.

No, death in and of itself is not enough of a deterrent, obviously. People raid, die, redeff and come back, multiple times.

Also, please explain to me how increasing experience loss while in an enemy organization's territory limits the appeal of the entire game, and not raiding specifically.

1: Sure lets try that and see how it goes. It does not sound like it would be to bad to code in a few days and see how that plays out.

2: I don't like that idea due to it hurts people who have been in the games for awhile. If number 1 does not work I would say we look into it and see what takes place but for now just do the first one and see how things go. Small steps before larger steps.

Because to a large number of people, raiding IS part of the game's entire appeal. It's a conflict mechanism, as well as (for the raided) a political process and extent of org-work that can be done. Nonstop, excessive hit-and-run, and endless losses are the issues, not raiding in itself.

I'd get behind the 500k or 5% minimum for enemy territory.

I usually die more from dicking around in faethorn or defending then from raiding, but I'll spend the 300k to reincarnate without a second thought, even when I'm not in a hurry to get back, because it's really not a big deal to bash that much back.

I disagree, because I complain constantly about it. Celest has an abundance of Demigod's, but the problem is, those demigods are real pacifists. They won't fight unless they really have to, and gods know why they bashed to a demigod. It's really just a status thing I guess.


And @ Sadhyra, ya.. I play this game for PvP conflict completely. I go so far as to flaunt it IC without broaching that IC/OOC line. I could care less for the rituals, ceremonies, RP, etc of this game. This is where I'm allowed to let loose steam and kill. Thus I pushed and shoved and QQ'd until an opening was given to force Celest back into the war!

Number two is great, two million essence isn't much for people with 200 million.

Whoever said people would downgrade to titan for raiding is out of their mind in so many ways. No havens, no domoths, no dfire, missing a stat point... what game do you play?

Missed this before, whoops

I liked the, having them be like guards in that they are summoned, and then have an monthly upkeep cost idea. Even if in the end, more power was spent upkeeping them all the time, I think people would be more willing to do that then having to spend the 200 power them self summoning it. Also that way they can always be there to let people figure out how to use them and practice.

Patience for time spent bashing isn't an awesome cost for dying anyway. It's all well and good having Vathael spend an extra few hours grinding more than he was going to anyway but if we're trying to make combat easier to get into and already have a huge front-ended entry req of timewasting forcing someone with limited time to spend every other day recuperating from mistakes raiding seems suboptimal.