Read the latest announces for the changes inspired by this thread!

For those who think that the reason raids happen is because there isn't an outlet for pvp, I think you are being a little naive. Raids happen to hurt another organization. No matter how many arenas or open pk territories, rewards for non-pk matters, etc. that you put up (and I like some of those ideas too), it does not actually fulfill the outlet that some people are looking for. As someone pointed out earlier, certain raiders aren't looking for pvp fights, they are looking to "win". And among the, there certainly a few who avoid fights unless they feel they have an edge or a good probability of winning. If the results of raiding didn't do any or little harm, then those people who strive for conflict would find other outlets (probably directly jumping others). Don't get me wrong, I don't see anything wrong with any of these raiders per se, but, rather, I think the admin aim should be to find some balanced, middle ground.

I'm well aware I provoked some of it but my poems weren't posted until Ethelon had jumped me 5 or 6 times without me saying a word to him (I was already snubbed) so obviously ignoring it didn't do anything and quite frankly I'm astonished at the amount of people that defend him against my posts especially when he pulls the dumping noobs in astral crap etc. He might have been trying to kill me for calling him a coward for running from Shuyin when he appeared, though he tried to say he wasn't '(actions speak louder than words buddy). Regardless, he jumped me initially with no provacation at all except I was a member of Glomdoring.

@Ruiku I didn't think our last IC convo went so badly thus i was looking forward to another one and what did I cut out? I stated it pretty straight forward, exactly what happened from my perspective. No I didn't include that we had an IC convo before because 1) I didn't think it went badly and 2) it was a different situation. Still doesn't change the fact that you complain about zerging and fair play and then turned to team me, who you happen to be 15 times bigger than. And according to Norns, snubbing is a very OOC thing, FYI

@Asin (who I'm assuming is Marie) whatever your intentions were or not, I hit you, you left, I continued hunting and then got jumped by Ruiku/you, how else should I take it? I really only attacked you to see if I fixed my gripping issue so I couldn't be forced to throw my rapiers again. I'll admit I was a bit bitter that you took my rapiers that first time, preventing me from doing anything but run, die or call for help, but I got over that and fixed the problem I think

If this is the way things always have been or not, it doesn't really matter, I'm just pointing out that these are the type of things that drive people away. The game only grows if there is an influx of new players and this kind of targetting will make them quit pretty fast. Remember, I get away a lot and don't die because I have a clue of what's going on, what about those that have no clue? What happens when Ethelon kills them 5 times simply because of the org they belong to. What happens when Narsrim pulls them into some strange room, simply because they were following someone into a fight? When they try to get even with someone who attacked them and get teamed up on and die to that a few times? That's what drives new people away, the ones who don't really get what's going on, the ones that are trying to figure out what exactly their skills do. I'm pointing out that I've been asking for it, and in two weeks, people have tried to on me hardcore, but most don't ask for it, and as I've pointed out, they still get on by those like Ethelon.

Really, you need to ignore Ethelon for the most part. For as long as I've been playing, the only time I've ever seen his name on deathsight has been him skewering people 30% of MY might or him being skewered by other people...

What the ****.

My demesne.

WHAT.

It would seem to me that changing the nature of a frequently raided territory from one associated with an org to one in which only 6 (4?) people in the entire game can enemy too - or even view - is not exactly helpful from a "we should curb raiding" stand point. This is the kind of stuff that makes people fume about the admin's mixed messages.

Further, these are now org territories where one guild has a considerable more sway over the governing than any other guild, for a seemingly arbitrary reason. BT have aspects in etherwilde/glom. Why don't they get to enemy to this territory?

Has a comparable thing be done on earth/water/nil/celestia?

Celestines and Nihilists can enemy to Celestia and Nil respectively. Not sure about Water or Earth.

Aquas/Geos can enemy/Amnesty to Tide/Stone Lords. I read that change as "In addition to Celest/Magnagora/Serenwilde/Glomdoring enemies, enemies to Tide/Stone/Celestia/Nil/Moon/Night are now enemies on Water/Earth/Celestia/Nil/Etherwilde/Etherglom"

Celestia/Nil/Water/Earth have always been this way. Ethereal Seren/Glomdoring have not, to my knowledge (as in - they were not territory one could be an 'enemy' of). Could be wrong though.

What area does being an enemy of Hart/Crow make enemy territory? My buddy Crow feels left out!

I was enemied to Moonspirit back when we first did the Xion Initiative. I dunno if it counted Ethwilde as "moon" territory then, but :shrug:

The only real issues with raiding come from people like Celina and Urazial who will attack and run CONSTANTLY. Perhaps you should gain insanity if you return to the plane soon after leaving? Nothing like being raided every 30 minutes.

Raids should either be done or be ignored. I have no problem with someone attacking for a real raid, even if it is solo. The problem is when they run as soon as someone then shows up.

I recall not too long ago Thoros was asked if he was griefing Celest, and yet... doesnt Celina and Urazial do worse than that?

The changes to death are retarded. Why?

Lich and Vitae are now entirely a bad thing, you still lose the essence but you dont get anything out of it. Lich and vitae should both reduce the penalty by a large margin. What purpose is death avoidance if it backfires and you still lose 500K essence? You need to fix having such skills if avoiding death is actually backward.

At the same time, what purpose is this change to dying in enemy territory if certain organizations can just avoid it completely? Die to an SMob, reform somewhere else, no loss! Die to demons / angels / ladies / daughters, reform, a-okay!

That's not a disincentive, but yeah, it does make these skills less useful in enemy territory. I've got a few concerns myself, but I'm going to give it some time and see how it works out, personally.

I don't think Celina really runs. I've seen her swamping through a big mass of Celestians on Celestia a few times now- sometimes she gets killed, but if she doesn't, sure, she's going to leave.

What do you suppose is provoking these attacks? The purely IC fact of a declaration of war, perhaps? A reponse to Celestians involving themselves on attacks on Glomdoring? Lulz?

There are already means by which you can deter this sort of thing. Pursue peace instead of declaring war, distort, and guarding territories. There you go.

Guarding territories generally means that somebody has to be up on ethereal/cosmic with the whole place melded all the time. Just in case somebody decides to pop in and out. Which is not fun for the poor mage/druid who gets that responsibility dumped on.

And with the new changes to melds ( my poor demeeeeeeeesne T_T) melding the whole place isn't even possible anymore. I can't even cover the three avatars anymore with a single meld unless I buy a 200 credit artifact

I think that's why he suggested... asking for peace, instead of guarding territories, heh.

yeah, but you still have to have somebody guarding, because not everybody is going to respect inter-org diplomacy

I don't think you paid much attention over the last few months... Celest was left alone by everybody. They got a lot of peace in without having to guard.

That's the point of Treaties, after all.

I haven't been here over the last few months. My computer's motherboard decided to quit.

You'd be surprised. I'm going to have to say that the majority of people do, and those that don't can be handled appropriately. As for guarding a territory it's a pretty easy thing to do and has been done many times. I remember having to hang around ethereal Glomdoring for hours just watching for someone to pop in. Perhaps not the most entertaining way to spend the time, but there are things which can be done even then.