Many of us in the top 20 would lose the max 2 mil each death, plus death cost, plus phoenix. Yes, it's absurdly high

Just as a point of interest (and not refuting/agreeing with feelings about the numbers) everyone has always received the enemy territory penalty, except demigods.

It's not much of a penalty with conglutinate, though. Which, on the other hand, is a requirement for defenders... but losing half a percent out of enemy territory and a percent in isn't that big a difference.

Still, like I said, I imagine we'll see tweaking in the future once we've had time to play with it a bit.

It still is, but as to whether or not it's 'demigod proportions', I can't fathom.

I was more responding to the people commenting on prime mob-org enemy territory (where you don't conglute).

Isn't all the way from titan to demigod an equivalent of around 20-30 million essence? So the 2M+ essence loss would equal 7-10% of progress on titan level lost in one death (I'm not sure about the amount of essence needed, really, maybe I'm way off). That's way more than I ever lost to a titan death, and takes alot longer to recoup. It does seem a bit excessive. A fixed 500k essence loss for dying on enemy territory should be more than enough for people to not just shrug it off.

I understand how you come to your view, but the Ethereal planes are also reflections of the prime plane. Wiccans have dominion over fae, but not neccesarilly all things bound up with the ethereal despite the connection you point out. The plane is part of the prime plane and not even habited by fae unless bound. The only link comes from the avatars (which are fae I admit), but also part of commune as opposed to Wyrdyr which is pure Night fae. So I disagree with the change, even if it does empower my guild and rp to an extent. The change makes it quite difficult to limit the current changes to reducing xp loss to only raiding, but I imagine that was considered, or so I hope.

The change unfortunately will also create a steep rise in enemying practices, as to be safe from and to create risk for COMMUNE enemies and potential ones, they need to be enemied to Night (and quite likely the Shadowdancers). I'm not sure if this was planned or not, but I'm pretty sure other orgs will follow suite if they need to since the deterent is only there if enemied to Night/Moon/etc.

Come to think of it, Fae may LIVE in ethereal, but ethereal is the metaphysical manifestation of the forests, right? Wouldn't that mean that the druids should play a rather important role too?

So far as the demigod losing more essence goes... I don't think you'll find any non-demigods that care a lot, guess why? You get buffs, more critical hits, divine fire, lots stronger, quit yer ing about them slapping on something that means you might just have to be careful with all that power you throw around.

There's a difference between making the penalty so great as to stop any demigod from raiding at all and making it in line with the other mortals. Anyone not in the top 20 or so could lose demi from a handful of hunting deaths. So what do you get from hunting for countless hours of hunting? Oh, a chance to lose it all due to lag.

Solution: Double the death and phoenix costs in enemy terr. This scales lich/transmigrate/vitae/etc and makes it considerably more impacting. Estarra, I'm sure you remember the reasons why people complained enough to get all the demigod XP losses cut in half; those haven't changed.

Well I think that was the point, it'll cut down on the number of demigods that raid, duuuuuh.

If you can't afford to lose it don't raid, train up a lot untill you CAN afford to lose it.

See Sadhyra's post. Why shouldn't demigods be able to raid just as freely as everyone else? The point was to make it on par with non-demi deaths, not overhaul raiding to a screeching halt with game mechanics.

What level are you? 80? 85? 90? Do you lose full levels every enemy territory death? No. Let's say you lost 2-3 levels every death? Would you still raid?

You do realise that dying in enemy territory doesn't mean you were raiding? Aside from that, you seem to have no idea how long it takes to gain 2 million essence outside of a nice Astral group or aetherhunting. It's certainly nothing you want to lose off-handedly. Also, the people who are demigods did something for that. I surely don't want to have to bash for hours for a single death now that I have it. You also seem to have a misconception about the power of a demigod; especially the step from titan to demigod isn't all that huge.

I'm not saying it's not hard but it's closer to most raiders than you might think, most raiders that aren't demis are at least in the low 90s so they do lose quite a bit of experiance. What else would you be doing in enemy territory except raiding that would get you killed?

Also, I'll say it again: The entire POINT of this change is to curb raiding, it does it quite effectively, I see no problem.

|-------------------------------------------------------------- ENEMIED TO|
| Maylea Glomdoring Hartstone |
| Bottledowns Faethorn Hartspirit |
| Charune Ladantine Angkrag |
| Shallach Licorice Pastries |
| Ghostwolves Shallamurine Morgfyre |
| Cacophony Illithoid (amnesty 7 mo Ninjakari |
| Gorgogs Alakar Facility |
| Harbingers Articia Nightspirit |
| Shadowdancers Viravain Serenwilde |
| Lisaera Moonspirit Wydyr |
| Moondancers Nocht Figurines |
| Crowspirit |
|-------------------------------------------------------------------------|

I die in any of the related areas, I lose 2.15M - 2.3M essence. Sadhyra and Chade were hunting kephera when they died.

I remember rather well how much XP it took on death in enemy and non-enemy terr before demi, it's nowhere near comparable to any iteration of XP loss (xp loss has been tweaked several times before) Got that? Not even close.

Curb != Cessation

What else would we be doing? Bashing kephera/illithoid/gorgogs/etc? Asking a question that has been answered several times in the previous few posts is either selective memory or a shortcoming in your reading comprehension.

Veyrzhul don't bother any further, logic eludes this one.

Sure curbing doesn't mean stopping completely but then you still have the top 20 or so demis that can raid if they can be bothered with the possibility of dying and you've still got every non-demi ever EVER that can raid, it wont stop raiding, merely curb it.

Not to get on a soapbox here, but I've always seen the whole "denizens having territory" thing to be a bad move. There's hardly ever an RP excuse to defend gorgogs or merians, it's always people jumping people bashing to avoid Avenger. Grief excuses like these are somewhat silly. That said, yeah, there should definitely be a marked difference between org territory and denizen territory for the purposes of this essence loss change.

Also, in regards to Lich and Vitae, maybe have rezz skills other than conglute just not work in enemy org territory? That seems fair enough, as I'd be out of my mind to raid with Vitae up, but it'd be nice for bashing every now and then.

EDIT: I just got another idea, since everyone is complaining about the lack of Planar utility these days. Have a skill in Planar that raises a defense to ignore rezz defenses in favor of congluting?

I barely lose anything off prime when I die, enemy territory or normal. Level 97 right now.

I'd like demi, but with this change and the look at how I play and how often I actually care to do anything that gets essenc.e.. Not sure if I`d be able to ever maintain it.

Would be pretty swell if the new demi xp changes only applied to player enemy territory only, yes.

Myself I'm still of the opinion that you get it a lot easier than non-demis so can suffer but I can see why you'd be pissed at losing lots of experiance in bashing, but there are still lots of oppertunities open for you to hunt, aren't there? Astral? Aetherspace? Does Muud enemy?