Ah, I'm not a hotheaded defender or anything, I was just talking about the larger point of the ease of escape in the game. Hermit, cubix, orgbix, contrivances - I think that if you go into enemy territory, escaping should be a bit harder than touching some box.

That's all good and fine, but considering it's a.. 579.99 USD box, I'd be inclined to continue saying that rendering it more difficult to use in most ways would honestly be unfair from a purchase standpoint. You are severely limiting the power of the artifact - the cost was designed with no such limitations in mind, and applying one would make the artifact a lot less valuable. If you want to differentiate orgbix from cubix, that is fine, but I must disagree with the entire process. I guess maybe it's frustrating to be matched against people who can escape a lot of forms of trap you can lay - but that comes with playing a game with a slight pay-for-perk model like artifacts. They are the exceptional, not the rule, and nothing should ever be balanced around 579.99 USD exceptions.

I could maybe see the cubix taking a longer period to work on enemy territory, similar to how TELEPORT NEXUS takes some time to move you to that room (but obviously not the same amount of time, that is a huge huge delay for such an expensive artifact), with orgbix taking even longer than that.. but even that sounds VERY questionable.

Yeah. I get you. I'm not saying I know the right solution - obviously refunds are always a sticky situation from a business perspective. I'm just commenting on the effect I think items like the cubix have on the game.

For one, we just don't have the manpower to physically oversee what everyone does so people would not be treated consistently. Second, telling people not to do something generally isn't very effective (we've tried). They may stop for a short period but unless there are punishments involved, there's really no motivation not to go back to that behavior. Finally, if we do decide to try and oversee raiding (don't hit and run so much!) or aetherspace (constant spotchecking) or whatever, not only will it exhaust our volunteers (and paid staff) but there will undoubtedly be accusations of favoritism or lack of objectivity which will lead to having to set precedents and before you know it we have reams of help files laying out character behavior rules.

Or we could address the situation mechanically which treats everyone the same and doesn't tie up staff resources. Thus, we will -always- try to come up with a mechanical solution if there is a need to set guidelines to character behavior.

See, that I can understand. Also, after a brief rethink, I realize hit and run is not covered in the rules as 'wrong' or 'not allowed' - which makes me question the validity of my suggestion for administrative punishment. I guess my general concern is that whenever an supposed issue crops up, we spend so much time bringing up a solution that will inevitably need tons and tons of tweaks that will be similarly consumptive of the aforementioned manpower. Sure, after 'finishing' the solution or telling a player "that's all we're doing", the manpower expenditure is generally done - but that's still time something else could be done.

I guess maybe I'm just a really big fan of having as few systems limiting player action concerning PK/raiding as possible, especially when honestly, this form of 'raiding' isn't really hurting anybody except the intangible concept of RP and some NPCs. The only ones that matter are pact/supermobs that grant abilities or are very crucial to an organization's working.. but my opinion is that those shouldn't be killable anyways if they are intrinsically tied to the operation of abilities. However, the way they are is the way they will stay is my guess, so people feel 'obligated' to defend those mobs at the very least.

What about the middle ground of 'engaging a supermob makes escape more difficult'?

This isn't even about smobs. Those were buffed to the point were no one has successfully raided one yet (Someone correct me if someone actually has downed one/multiple since the buff). That seemed to discourage smob griefing enough. This is apparently about people losing their little mobs that are worth a handful of power which almost any citizen or commune member could make up with almost no effort. Unless I'm missing something.

This is about people constantly running in and out of org territory purely for the sake of being annoying and pissing people off.

So ignore it. Viola.

Well, I find it annoying when people raise TBC all the time, but it's just annoying. And when the time comes along to kill Marani, I go do it. And it's done. It'll be raised the next day, but so what? It's not really hurting anything all the much. If we start trying to eliminate everything we find annoying, we're going to run out of stuff to do.

Also, it works both ways. It's not as if these people are using one way tunnels. Go annoy them.

All that will accomplish is instead of 1-2 gloms running around being dicks for hours on end, I'll have 5 or 6 or more doing that or camping Ethereal Serenwilde.

And you try telling your entire org to ignore it after you've had somebody kicking denizens on off for hours nearly everyday with practically nothing you can do about it.

Turn off loyalsays until they go away, go about your business. Tiny mobs make NO difference. Ignoring conflict/fights sucks, but there's a point where encouraging this isn't smart.

Well, I have told people from my org to ignore it. I do it a lot, actually. Anyways, tell the people who are crying about it to sit at the cubix point. (Or EtherSeren and EtherGlom actually enjoy not having a direct cubix point). If it's that important to them, or their rp, then they can plant themselves there and catch the offenders.

Besides, that's the point. Getting 5-6 up there means it's no longer a kick and run, but a full blown raid. Pop shrine effects and get people in. Whee!

I'm just saying, a plane full of raiders with no one to kill makes them bored really quick. I'm not in Serenwilde though, so maybe I'm not seeing the whole picture. I dunno! I just don't like stuff I'm paying for being nerfed after I've bought it just because people find things annoying, as opposed to things being game breaking.

(Might want to avoid declaring that the "other side" is "being a dick;" a good 75% of the EthSeren raids I see are a direct response to you playing around in Faethorn for significant periods of time. And leads to lots of off-topic posts that don't really have a place in the conversation!)

You know I think said right there in that quote that large groups in Etherwilde are usually in response to us doing something back, like... chasing Urazial around in Faethorn after he was just running around being a pest. =/

Though I'll admit sometimes I'm out there because I'm bored and would kinda like a fight, guess I should learn by now that can only end with a raid.

Oho, I seem to recall picking up someone's corpse at the ether Master Tree today. Fact is, more people indulge in these hit and runs or simply making a pest of themselves than is often really complained about, and then again there are those select individuals that only "raid" during the wee hours when there's little to no defenders. In fact, things just grew worse for Serenwilde lately with their latest bit of Glom elder mulching and stablemaster killing, so eh. Ultimately my antics are far less damaging than when Glom goes in full force and Serens die. Heck, I even go back into Faethorn afterwards and let Iasmos and a troop of Serens have a go at it.

Ah, and it's not like I only orbix out of etherwilde- I could walk in and out, or worse case park my aethership at etherwilde dock and get out that way. Perhaps we should let the archways from Faethorn into ethereal communes be distortable similar to the gates from elemental to cosmic.

It's not the antics that I mind so much. It's the frequency and duration (i.e., chronic persistence) that I mind.

And, Urazial doesn't "let" anyone have a go at him. The only reason he goes into Faethorn is because that's where he set up his meld, briar walls, etc, and it's not enemy territory (not that he loses essence, anyway, because there still is no penalty for that zero essence thing).

Also, please don't mess with my cubix.

I don't even have a cubix, and I'm against fiddling with it. Yes, raiding can be annoying sometimes, but it's part of the game.

Tears will dry, princess(es). And yes, I'm just as guilty about bitching as the rest of you sometimes.

Well of course I do. BT meld isn't like a Pyro meld (though it's still amusing that you so often like to second guess someone you don't know once they've made a statement), and three or four people against one is still three or four people against one.

Have to say that Kante's statement above has a ring of truth to it. If an aspect of the game doesn't sit well with you, don't participate. Don't go running after whomever in defense of your e-territory if it's so frequent and grievous as to make things unpleasant. Doing so is entirely and soley your choice, so if you keep doing things you don't like then you have no one to blame but yourself.

Yeah... no. That attitude is bad for everyone, whether they participate or not. I mean, Iasmos enjoys fighting (and especially killing) Urazial, but that doesn't mean he enjoys dealing with him on a regular basis, and he's certainly not going to ignore him. It's not the defenders that should be altering their behavior in a case like this, not to that degree.