There are skills specifically designed to drain willpower and endurance of your opponent. I think people already bitched about Tahtetso scrambled brain whoring (a long time back, not sure anyone's really used it recently). Other than that, tumbling costs 500 endurance and in long fights, I've noticed the drain, at least.

Willpower and endurance are something that could be worked on, though, sure. Their impact isn't noticable too often.



In both cases you're paying for the same thing, the personnel &resources required to run the game.

You do realize how absurd it is to say that paying for access to WoW is a 'real thing' while paying for access to things on Lusternia is not, right? Heh. WoW is just as non-real.

WP means that you can feasibly bleed someone out if the fight goes on long enough. I've had fights in Aetolia where the person was so defensive tanky that I just had to sit making them bleed for 10 minutes until they hit 0 WP from the clotting. However, the fact that you can aim for something like that IS good. As mentioned, it gives an option that can end long, stalemate fights.

I like my willpower and endurance.

Gold and credits are easy enough to acquire in Lusternia, too.

Actually, shouldn't that be reason enough to remove willpower and endurance? You know, streamlining combat and such.

Besides, it'd make Benediction awesome as a passive curing skill.

Clot less.

In WoW (or any other MMO), every player pays the same flat rate and gains access to the game world. Everyone is on a level playing field, with their advancement determined by their skill, how long they've been playing and how well they know the game. This is true to a certain extent in Lusternia, except that each character's abilities are directly correlated to how much money their player has invested. It's interesting how this never comes up in-game. No one ever scratches their head and wonders where so-and-so got that pile of otherworldly artifacts, or how that novice just happens to know more combat abilities than a thirty-year veteran of the ur'guard.

Sure, you can buy credits from other players, and you can win them in competitions. But is it fair that some people have to slave away for real-life years to achieve what a novice could technically get in 3 minutes? Give or take, depending on whether they have to go look for their credit card. You can (and will) argue that it is fair, that time equals money and that someone down the line must've put in the time to earn that money to buy those credits. But Lusternia is a game, for crying out loud, and it's silly for our characters' capabilities to be so strongly linked to our real-life wallets. It violates the spirit of the competition and renders the world wholly unbelievable. I doubt many of you sound as ruthlessly capitalistic in real life as you do when you're defending the business model here.

And yet, people DO manage without paying a dime... they bash, and influence, and bash some more, and churn out enough fan fiction or "art" to fill volumes. Actual volumes! You have to hand it to the head honchos at IRE for bringing to life a scam par excellence. This scam is entirely unlike most others floating around the internet in that it's based on a product of unquestionable quality. The writing, when not too riddled with typos, is often moving, and I've never been so disgusted by fiction as I have been by some of the descriptions found in Nil, Astral and Vortex. They've woven together an unforgettable world and put us in charge of it, and in doing so they've made it more than a game for most of us. Why else would people work so hard and invest so much emotion into it, to the point where they're willing to pay huge amounts or go to grueling lengths to match what those who paid are capable of? It's almost disturbing when you step back and take a look at it... not all of you, certainly, but enough of you. The ones Jack and I call the "lifers", who are always playing Lusti or thinking about playing Lusti. Ever since I got back from school I've spent a pretty obscene amount of time on here too, after staying away for a spell, and it's eerie seeing how often some of you are kicking around on the 'who' list. That is to say, always.

And yet those are the people we envy, because they're the ones who become the city and guild leaders, the ascendants, the champions. They're the stars of the show, and I can only imagine what losers they must be in real life. But here we are striving to match them, to have the biggest numbers and the highest name on the list. The select few chosen may get to become Gods, even, and that's the grandest part of the scheme. Except for the lead designer and the coding staff, the administration works for free! Hours and hours and hours. And read their posts... they're so disappointed in themselves when they don't have more time to throw at this game. IRE's got dozens of devoted employees that it doesn't even have to pay - that's the real genius of its business model. Matt (that's the head honcho's name, right?) should throw all this out and start teaching business theory to CEOs.

I think I've exhausted my ire for now. Gee, I must sound like a paranoid freak. I'm gonna go bash some more, gotta get focus mind.

Are you hunting with a skill like regeneration activated?

I used to have a lot of issues with willpower but they disappeared after level 85. Until very recently my Discipline was at Apprentice (Insomnia) and I would rely on nightkiss to hunt. I don't remember kephera being anywhere being a drain as lobstrosities or virgins but I'm ok with being forced to take a short break after 2 hours of hunting. In Glomdoring there's also the Chessboard of Libertas if you've got it in you to do it all again.

The cost to play is another issue entirely but consider that IRE is a company and commercial muds exist to make a profit. It's possible to get by without making a credit purchase if you have a lot of free time on your hands but for most of us it probably makes more sense to pay $100 than to hunt 500 hours. In a lot of games you don't even have the option of a trial period or if you do it's crippled in some fashion.

Mudding is niche so paying a premium is to be expected but IMO artifacts are grossly overpriced. If it weren't for events I would not own any artifacts so one thing I'm really thankful for the occasional freebie. One thing that really disturbs me is that a overwhelming portion of the playerbase seems to be in their early 20's who I strongly suspect are spending beyond their means or leeching off their parents money. (Hello Mortexia!) If you make a purchase you do it of your own free will so even if you blow several (hundred|thousands) of dollars learning to run a budget is a important skill and it'll have been worth it.

EDIT: Fixed some typos. This post was written before I read Azoth's previous post. (#27)

Azoth, three words.

Chinese Gold Farmers.

Ingame holdings can be directly tied to one's wallet.

I'd reassess this statement, actually. It's always been surprising just how non "young" a substantial amount of our population really is. Though there are definitely those who fit this to the T, there are also those with families (including kids, and there's nothing like a kid to teach one how to figure out a budget I'm sure ) and so on.

Tervic, three words.

Bind-on-pickup.

You can get some nifty things if you buy a pile of gold (sweet mounts, even some decent loot), but you'll never get close to what we would refer to as 'top-tier'. I hope I don't get forumbanned for advertising WoW over Lusternia or something, I haven't even played it in three months. :P

Actually I don't get this impression at all. When I look at the cost of artifacts I mostly scratch my head and wonder why anyone would want to spend hundreds of dollars for what to me seems to be fairly lame abilities. For example transportation devices like the cubix and paradox puzzle, while handy are crippled version of the wizi GOTO command. Weapon runes cost a lot of credits but only make your weapon marginally better. Skills/lessons, are somewhat more reasonable but still very expensive. There's an old thread where Esano calculates the minimum lesson requirements for a combatant and it worked out to something like $300 USD.

What is really amazing is that players are happy to pay these outrageous rates and so long as they are willing there is no reason to change.

Weapon runes aren't marginal, they're necessary. 15% may not sound like much, but with combat the way it is in Lusternia (you'll notice I had no complaints about that), 15% is the difference between sticking wounds and having some all healed, or doing enough damage that they can't apply health every balance, etc. Basically it's the difference between winning or losing. With demesne nerfs, you're going to need at least a lesser rune of demesnes. Artifact pipes are necessary because a) normal ones do not work underwater and b) you really don't want your coltsfoot pipe becoming unlit while sapped or aeoned. Those are the 'necessary' artifacts off the top of my head, but while the rest may be less vital they still give a distinct advantage. +20% magic damage... that's a lot. You can have level 3 regeneration across the board as any race, or fly as any race (especially handy now that aeromancers are flinging people into the air), or get a straight 15% boost to health/mana/ego. That's a heck of a lot at demigod. Howzabout the Great Rune of Absorption, which has a chance of completely nullifying an incoming attack? For people struggling to meet the minimum skill requirements for combat, these sort of advantages seem absurd.

SO YEAH guys, willpower and endurance! We should totally ditch them under the guise of streamlining and simply tweak the two things that they're actually handy for. I'm pretty sure no skill specifically targets will/end and only will/end... psyvamp hits willpower, but that's not what people use it for.

I think a bunch of affs only work on will/end actually. Plus there's a bunch of artefacts and things mitigating them that would do nothing. So it's not quite that simple, you'd need to throw out alternatives.

There are several afflictions that affect willpower/endurance drain rate, and a few afflictions that affect them as their only effect. There are defenses for them, crafted items and artifacts to replenish them, and other things that rely on them. It's more of an overhaul than you're suggesting.

Afflictions can be replaced, especially ones that are rarely used (ie most afflictions). But you're right, of course, they're not about to refund anyone so much as a single credit, if the past has taught us anything. And therefore, no change! Lock plz.

I one time fought Geb for about two hours in Limbo before finally just leaving after using up about 80k worth of healing supplies and about 50k willpower. Refreshed willpower after running out the first time. Anyway, I think willpower/endurance are good things to keep around. It might not be the easiest route for attrition but it does work.

You buy ladies? Like... prostitutes, or slaves?

There is, in my mind, no clear distinction.

Glad I wasn't the only one that noticed.