100k is pennies to cover for anyone semi active.

If we make the argument that the cost is nothing, then we have to still say the mechanic is pointless. If the drain is meaningless, then it won't deter anyone, which is supposedly its entire function.

Meaningless and the ability to live with are not the same thing. It doesn't have to be Black or White.

I agree that they're not the same thing. But what's the point of living with it? It's not like its patching a glaring hole in how Lusternia worked. Nor is it adding some interesting dynamic to the game. It seems more like... "Oh man, I'm bored... Lets just throw this in here." Estarra said that it's meant to make orders be more of a supportive pillar for the orgs they're associated with. If that's true, but the cost of NOT being part of that org is so small that it's not really a big deal, then it's not really accomplishing that goal. (Which... I don't really agree with that particular goal in the first place, but that's beside the point.)

I mean, she's already put her foot down that it's here to stay, so I can stop arguing about it, but I'm still just really confused how it's meant to push us all in a direction without being more heavy-handed. And if it's just meant to be annoyance, and not actually be game changing... then yeah, I do ask what the point of it is. I see no value in it.

It is really just another forging, if it will change it will be after years of complaining. Although we nolonger have a lack of rants to assist in this matter.

Yeah, we can let this thread die now. I'll necro it in a year or so.

And that's pretty sad. If a new mechanic is added and people are generally, not overwhelming as the forums doesn't represent the entire playerbase, but generally against it then maybe it is worth taking a step back for a second and giving it a second look. Original intention is fine but orders have functioned this way from the start of the game. The original intention has sort of gone out the window and the function of the order has changed. You have orders now the specifically state that they are not a pillar of one org. Raezon is a good example, he's always been favorable to Magnagora because they are the most supportive to him but he isn't really pro-Magnagora. His followers can come from anywhere. The original intention changed and you're not getting it back.

8 people draaaain 470000 a day. And we get 28000 from devotion. =(

Unhappy panda is unhappy. I still maintain I see the point of the change, but it's seriously painful for us as pulling from a wider range of people has always been one of the appealing things about Raezon philosophy.

As an incentive, maybe orderheads and/or avatars give a small experience bonus to people who hunt with them who have affinity? Maybe it'll encourage members to hunt more together to try and offset the balance? About the only potential I can think of right now.

Not to sound callous, as I imagine that for the two of you speaking up, the concerns seem real and reasonable, but from an outside perspective, Raezon's order has taken a decidedly active pro-Mag stance. It's not what I would consider a neutral order, by a long shot.

Eh, wasn't saying it doesn't have connections to Magnagora, it does. However, it isn't all made up of Magnagorans or a extension of Magnagora. And it doesn't have to be Raezon's order for the example to work. Other gods have had more neutral of wide-reaching stances and it hasn't been a issue.

I know the new divine are kind of lacking quality people, but I don't think it is a good idea to force people out of old orders. I just checked, and some people alone rank 200k essence. That is way too much. Shouldn't have to suffer being in a different order that isn't affiliated to the city.

- -180000 essence from the spiritual distance of Ixchilgal.


I personally drain more than the entire rest of the order combined generates passively.

There is a problem with this. I'm now basically being forced to offer 3+ bottles of esteem a day just to break even. And frankly, I don't like influencing that much. I like hunting even less. I do it in bursts - sometimes, I'll go hard for a few weeks, and sometimes, I'll sit on my tush and find something else to entertain me for a while.

Now, I have no choice. And if I should happen to be offline for a couple days, say, because I"m moving 600 kilometers into a new province? Well, too damn bad! So, now I either have to screw over Raezon's order by A) Quitting it so I'm not an essence drain (not a good plan, since 10 million power was spent to make me an Avatar), or Screw over Raezon's order by staying in it, and draining said essence when I can't always be around to do things because (Gasp!) I might have a life. Or, I can quit Gaudiguch and lose out on a crap ton of credits and lessons, as well as having given up RL years of RP to backtrack on basically everything Ixchilgal has ever stood for in order to go crawling back to Magnagora.

Thanks. I really appreciate it, Estarra. I don't care if my offerings are a bit less than others, I don't care if my deaths cost a bit more. But passive drain? That's just stupid.

Once again, you implement a dumb mechanic, and refuse to look at what people say and admit you made a mistake. And in a few months/years, you'll say "Hey, this idea really -was- as stupid as everyone said. I'll ask for suggestions on how to fix it rather than just go look at everything that was proposed in the first place." Because this is what happens every single time. Every. Single. Time.

I wasn't claiming it as a neutral order, or one that wasn't pro-Magnagoran. It is. However, doesn't that technically make it worse? We're a pro-Magnagoran order that is suffering due to even a relatively small number of non-Magnagorans as compared to someone who might be considered neutral.

I believe Othero was simply using it as an example, whereas I'm speaking as someone who will be at least partially responsible for trying to work out how to ensure people keep interest in hunting that amount constantly, without wanting to quit. It does hurt us, especially due to the fact we're already a small order. This will force us to either be smaller, or suffer a lot of negatives like constant hunting.

Also, one thing I would like to see from this system: If you're forcing orders closer to a city, wouldn't it also be a reward for order members who hold positions within the city to also generate a higher amount of essence? I mean, why does someone who's not even OR30 cost us 180000 a day, whereas I, as an OH, GM and city minister only generate 1000 essence? Personally, I think that would also be a good reward for not only being in affinity, but for representing and promoting your god within their affiliated organisation.

Oh, and by "my deaths cost a bit more," I mean "they now cost 3x as much as they used to."

- -51999 essence from the death of Ixchilgal to Misadventure.
- -155997 essence from the death of Ixchilgal to Misadventure.

Though, I have to admit, I've observed no effect on my actual offerings. But that's probably a bug or something. I'm sure it'll be fixed, and esteem will be worth 20k - 30k for me. Which, y'know, will increase my required offerings to be six to nine bottles a day, just to break even.

@Ichilgal: Maylea's Ordermembers came up with another solution: just demote the high-ranking members to OR2, so they only drain 10k/day.

Still, the fact that high-ranking people only generate 1,000, while they can drain hundreds of thousands, is still unbalanced.

See now 180k - 200k a day is stupid. I agree there, that's beyond manageable. I have to switch my like of this idea to a dislike. It is starting to look more and more like someone upstairs had a bright idea and then someone else coded something completely ridiculous.

If you wanted church and state to be one thing you should have just gone with banning people from being in an Order when not in the org, because a few thousand essence drain a rl day is one thing, even as much as 100k for the highest ranked people can be managed... but 180k and he isn't even the highest ranked member... wow... just wow.

Yeah, I agree with the sentiment behind this system but 180k is a little much.

It's 10k a day for OR0.

The max you seem to generate at OR30? 1k.

That's right, it takes 10 order heads to make up for one guy in the outer circle.

As Estarra said, it's based on how many privileges you have. This also includes having been made an Avatar. Logically, if a blessed mortal imbued with the essence of a God is too far from their spiritual centre, they will be a monstrous drain.

Death costs are, in the same vein, affected by Avatar-hood.

Your average person will not drain 195k (which I believe is the most, as it's how much Veyrzhul drains from me, and I think he has all order privs, and is an Avatar).

I think Raezon is far more Mag-centric than some are giving him credit for - and I think that, as time progresses and the new cities define themselves, you're going to find Elostian is more 'Hallifaxian' than 'Neutral'.

And the amount you generate does not vary. It's a flat gain. Only the loss varies. Estarra may or may not be open to changing that.

If you all have more incentives, suggest them!

And yet, nothing you posted here... makes a passive drain of that amount... a good thing in any sense. In fact, thinking harder on it, valid points were raised in the fact that if someone can't get online to even offset the passive drain for any reasons then you are punishing players for... not playing.