Oh thanks, I forgot that one. The guardians don't even know what their tertiaries will be right now, remembering the discussion about astrology/tarot.

I vaguley remember someone saying their impression was that hallifax guardians may have an entourage rather than a single pet which would leave their skill closer to wicca than the other guardian guilds especially if they don't have tarot.

Casilu says that the admin have had to add in things for warriors after to make the skills useful for them. If you release guardians first, you get to forum envoy in the months leading upto the warrior release to have these changes made, you will be able to justify them against the existing skills and how the changes would affect the guardians.

I needs food, brb

I will concede, if releasing Halliguardians first will ensure the warrior tertiary will be as awesome as Moon/Night, I wouldn't mind waiting a bit for them.

It's a good way for you guys to tailor your tertiary to your needs by talking with the Halli Guardian envoy, etc. So Guardians first!

Same, but what are the odds?

Slightly better than if your plan doesn't work and you have to go through envoys?

Probably far greater the other way, actually. The tert would probably be given zero thought with regards to warriors if guardians were already using it. As far as I understand it, all the things that are the best for warriors in the terts had to be added through envoys so far.

And if they don't you envoy. You won't be able to change too much of the skill until guardians are out anyway

That is the exact argument I've been making... why waste an envoy slot when they can think of warriors to begin with?

Your entire argument actually seems to be around your assumption that in years since release the admin have not noticed that warriors use these secondaries too and as such that they will not remember this or that they have had to add in extra abilities when designing the ritual specs.

Even if it happened you would have two months or so to sit with the admin and work out some changes that could improve it.

Also this is all still on the assumption that the skills are not already completed

Inquisition isn't an instakill!

The arguments for warriors BEFORE guardians are all metagaming arguments and everyone knows it.

For me it's pretty simple, Guardian's and Mages attract very similar types of players, one is just more of a religious RP tilt. If you want true expansion and perhaps more importantly diversity in the new cities Guardian's first seems like a mistake. Just my opinion though.

The arguments for warriors BEFORE guardians are all metagaming arguments and everyone knows it.

I want guardians, we have two cosmic planes that have nobody to care for them