Unknown2010-02-20 15:12:44
QUOTE
I can see the reasoning behind the system of lost lessons. It entices further purchase. And at least for many, it works. Everyone chiming in here obviously spent more credits, most of which comes from purchase. But it seems counterintuitive to have time/money investment poof entirely at a point in a player's game involvement where there's a good chance of them giving up and leaving. People change guilds because they're either forced to (outguilding/outcitizenship), are tired of the current guild/archetype, or need a change of pace.
Do you suppose having the 'lost' lessons become unavailable and then trickled back into availability over time would work out? For impatient sorts, it would still entice them to purchase more credits, so as to retrain up faster. But it also lets the uncertain types know that, at some point, they'll have all their previous might back - which encourages them to stick around and see how it turns out.
Given the concern over both acquiring new players as well as keeping existing players... this would seem to help keep players around longer.
I dunno, just a thought. It's a pretty radical change from the current model, so it seems unlikely to be looked at.
Do you suppose having the 'lost' lessons become unavailable and then trickled back into availability over time would work out? For impatient sorts, it would still entice them to purchase more credits, so as to retrain up faster. But it also lets the uncertain types know that, at some point, they'll have all their previous might back - which encourages them to stick around and see how it turns out.
Given the concern over both acquiring new players as well as keeping existing players... this would seem to help keep players around longer.
I dunno, just a thought. It's a pretty radical change from the current model, so it seems unlikely to be looked at.
If a kindly mod could do some scooching, that would be excellent, but no biggie.
Anyway, I like it, but I do think that if you switch guilds AGAIN during the trickle-down time, you ought to forfeit the lessons that you would recieve during it.That way we wouldn't have people switching guilds like Casilu and then having to put in no effort to restore themselves.
Kiradawea2010-02-21 00:14:32
Personally I think that this is a pretty good idea. It both allows people to try out new guilds (removing a limit for people to change org and guild, thus removing a part of stagnation) and helps protect them from political assassination.
Here's how I think it could work.
When you are joining a new guild, instead of what it is now, where you're forced to first do "forget awesomemancy", you'll be told "joining this guild will forfeith all your knowledge of awesomemancy and have it gradually replaced by knowledge in supermancy" or something more eloqulent.
All skills that must be forgotten will be forgotten. This includes High/Lowmagic and Tradeskills. The skills with only one available choice (primary, secondary and magic) will be automatically reselected for you. All the lessons spent on skills will be placed in seperate "containers", from which they slowly trickle down into your new skills. Primary to primary, secondary to secondary and so on.
At any time can you spend your own lessons to improve your skills. However, if your lessons spent in a skill improve it so much, that the trickle lessons would "overflow" those lessons are lost. Therefore, you can change guilds and wait to relearn all the important stuff, or you can pay for an immediate benefit.
Here's how I think it could work.
When you are joining a new guild, instead of what it is now, where you're forced to first do "forget awesomemancy", you'll be told "joining this guild will forfeith all your knowledge of awesomemancy and have it gradually replaced by knowledge in supermancy" or something more eloqulent.
All skills that must be forgotten will be forgotten. This includes High/Lowmagic and Tradeskills. The skills with only one available choice (primary, secondary and magic) will be automatically reselected for you. All the lessons spent on skills will be placed in seperate "containers", from which they slowly trickle down into your new skills. Primary to primary, secondary to secondary and so on.
At any time can you spend your own lessons to improve your skills. However, if your lessons spent in a skill improve it so much, that the trickle lessons would "overflow" those lessons are lost. Therefore, you can change guilds and wait to relearn all the important stuff, or you can pay for an immediate benefit.
Xavius2010-02-21 00:49:33
Personally, don't like it.
I would rather see something like FORGET , which let you forgo lesson recovery in favor of keeping the lessons in the original skill, which would still have to trickle back slowly to prevent too frequent of changes.
I would rather see something like FORGET
Kiradawea2010-02-21 00:57:33
That... confused me. How would that work, if it is in any way different from what I suggested?
Unknown2010-02-21 02:11:53
QUOTE (Kiradawea @ Feb 20 2010, 04:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
That... confused me. How would that work, if it is in any way different from what I suggested?
I'm speculating ... but I think what Xavius meant was you forget the skill but the server remembers that you once had that skill transed so if you ever go back to that archetype and relearn that skill it will automatically be transed but when you forget the skill you don't get lessons back at all.
Xavius2010-02-21 02:55:43
QUOTE (raikogen90 @ Feb 20 2010, 08:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm speculating ... but I think what Xavius meant was you forget the skill but the server remembers that you once had that skill transed so if you ever go back to that archetype and relearn that skill it will automatically be transed but when you forget the skill you don't get lessons back at all.
With a temporary lesson loss in that skill to discourage rapid switching, yes.
Sylphas2010-02-21 03:17:42
That would be wonderful for tertiaries, but I can also imagine switching terts is a good bit of money for them. Small enough that it's not a huge outlay, and easy enough that it can happen multiple times without screwing your character at all.
Kiradawea2010-02-22 01:31:34
Xavius' idea works too, but then you run into two different problems. Either it remembers ALL skills you've ever transed, at which point you reach a point where you can't use lessons again. And IRE can't sell you credits for lessons.
The alternative would be that it remembers your previous set of guild skills, and only that, up to a certain limit. At which point it won't be all that useful, because you must then go back to a guild you were previous a member off.
Still, it'd be far better than the current situation.
The alternative would be that it remembers your previous set of guild skills, and only that, up to a certain limit. At which point it won't be all that useful, because you must then go back to a guild you were previous a member off.
Still, it'd be far better than the current situation.
Sylphas2010-02-22 01:57:35
I'd be pleased even if it only worked for tertiaries, such that I could trans Healing, Hexes, and Astrology and switch (more or less) at will. Perhaps sell an artifact tertiary slot that will remember your skill level if you switch. If you switch guilds, you still have to relearn the rest, but if you're just switching tertiaries it's not a credit outlay each time.
Xavius2010-02-22 02:28:41
QUOTE (Kiradawea @ Feb 21 2010, 07:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Either it remembers ALL skills you've ever transed, at which point you reach a point where you can't use lessons again.
73 * 1715 / 6 = 20,866. => $5,633.82 minimum
Believe me, they won't care.
Unknown2010-02-22 04:29:21
QUOTE (Xavius @ Feb 21 2010, 09:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Plus artifacts for all of the guilds. Don't forget the artifacts.