Aetherspace Redux!

by Estarra

Back to Common Grounds.

Estarra2010-02-25 23:33:11
QUOTE (Doman @ Feb 25 2010, 03:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I still like my color idea, or, OR, use an MXP tag


Alas, not all clients can use MXP tags!
Doman2010-02-25 23:33:35
Meh, my awesome idea, destroyed
Ssaliss2010-02-25 23:34:13
QUOTE (Doman @ Feb 26 2010, 12:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I still like my color idea, or, OR, use an MXP tag

An interesting idea, sure, but it'd likely be easilly automatable (for me, it's a matter of five or six lines of code for the color part, but I've got a rather big advantage in just those areas). As for MXP, not everyone has them enabled, and not all clients are MXP-capable (mine, for instance, isn't) and telling someone "You have to use this client to play" will likely not work well.
Unknown2010-02-25 23:35:23
QUOTE (Doman @ Feb 25 2010, 06:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Meh, my awesome idea, destroyed


Eh, if they added in a configure for either a captcha or a to state a color that would be nice. I know I prefer the color idea to captcha but I'm sure others feel the exact opposite.
Desitrus2010-02-25 23:36:19
QUOTE (Estarra @ Feb 25 2010, 03:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
How do you make a captcha in text? I mean, as dumb as it sounds, it would solve everything, I just don't get how it would work.



Here's an example of ascii captcha, not recommending the product just an example: http://www.thephppro.com/products/captcha/...aUserData=#demo

I logged in to that old mud and am idling to try and catch a bot check, basically you get BOT CHECK! then ########## and an asci captcha generated, then you have like 30 seconds to BOTANSWER 12345 or ask it to regenerate the captcha if it's not clear. They are generated at "random" heights by having the box always be a standard size but starting on different lines. I assume it just randomly generates numbers/letters and has a pre-determined way to generate that number or letter in ascii, then puts them together for the check when it generates the phrase.

You could spin it with RP like the ship has systems that require input based on visual symbols or something.
Estarra2010-02-25 23:44:28
QUOTE (Desitrus @ Feb 25 2010, 03:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Here's an example of ascii captcha, not recommending the product just an example: http://www.thephppro.com/products/captcha/...aUserData=#demo

I logged in to that old mud and am idling to try and catch a bot check, basically you get BOT CHECK! then ########## and an asci captcha generated, then you have like 30 seconds to BOTANSWER 12345 or ask it to regenerate the captcha if it's not clear. They are generated at "random" heights by having the box always be a standard size but starting on different lines. I assume it just randomly generates numbers/letters and has a pre-determined way to generate that number or letter in ascii, then puts them together for the check when it generates the phrase.

You could spin it with RP like the ship has systems that require input based on visual symbols or something.


Verrrrry interessting...

chin.gif
Doman2010-02-25 23:46:22
It will have to be on the aether prompt or something, because it could get lost in spam EASILY
Ssaliss2010-02-25 23:49:53
That one would even be a bit challenging to code past. I still think I'd be able to, but it'd likely be significantly harder for normal clients.

... Darn it, I'm hoping that one goes in just so I can try it.
Ssaliss2010-02-25 23:51:21
QUOTE (Doman @ Feb 26 2010, 12:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It will have to be on the aether prompt or something, because it could get lost in spam EASILY

It wouldn't get lost if it's five-ten lines high. But not having it for the pilot would likely be best, since they have enough spam as it is, have their hands full of flying and therefore might not be able to type it in without blowing up, and is hard to automate anyway.
Gleip2010-02-25 23:52:08
Make a message both on the aetherprompt and create a few extra spacings before and afterwards so you'll notice that "something" happened?
Unknown2010-02-25 23:56:09
Also it should be noted figlet can be made to produce letters in a variety of ways.
Ssaliss2010-02-25 23:56:16
Also, apply "gag" liberally to areas that need it to make it stand out even more.
Desitrus2010-02-25 23:59:51
Lots of people tried, but they used cursive, lowercase, uppercase, and numbers could be any one of about four sizes.

It's also impossible to miss in spam. This particular mud allowed at-keyboard scripting of "running" as they called it, which involved several classes with monstrous ae abilities mowing down several of a few hundred zones at a retarded pace. Everyone triggers the line, but on top of that it's like a gigantic screen-consuming warning at least three times before it expires. Usually you put some sort of alert on the first line which is always the same, telling you there's a bot check in a popup, big flashing letters, playing a sound, etc. It doesn't enforce 100% 24/7 keyboard attentiveness, but it keeps people at the computer. You can automate astral bashing and be pretty much afk with good alerts and the right class.

They also let you miss like, two or three, then you get asploded. Repeat offenders got banhammered.

Could one or two dedicated people beat it? Maybe. Would take hours upon hours of tedium and testing which you couldn't really get without each generated case from the mud, so your true sample size would be tough to come by. Plus, things never stay a secret. If people face the choice of aeon mobs and disappearing vortexes or reporting you for automating the bot check... I'll let you figure that one out. In the end, it was just not worth the time investment.
Ytran2010-02-26 00:09:33
If it wasn't on the prompt, it'd be extraordinarily easy to miss if you had to run across the room because your brat was sticking his finger in an electrical socket or something, and by the time you got back several pages of text had gone by.

I also reiterate the problems that Captcha-esque methods of anti-botting would cause for those with visual impairments and/or those dependent on screenreaders.
Xiel2010-02-26 00:10:44
^That bot-checking mechanism would be dandy. I also support the proposition for slivven exterminators since it really does suck that two people miss out more on aetherbashing since they're stuck unlocked all the time just to kill so that the littler folk don't die to the things if they try them. Even if the slivven killing module was made to reflect the reduced experience of an energy collector would be better than what it is now.
Esano2010-02-26 00:12:31
Relying on things like MXP, or even fixed-width fonts, wouldn't be best (and yes there are people who do not use a fixed-width font). But sacrifices must be made - while not every client supports MXP, I believe that all of them support (and default to) a fixed-width font.

I have seen the system Desitrus is discussing (probably the same game). It could also rotate and invert the letters just for that extra bit of "what the hell is it supposed to be" (at least, I can remember it doing so - I think I screwed up an inverted three and a capital E at one point, but this was years ago and I might be mistaken), and gave you a (measly) reward for completing it in addition to not being pwnt. It would be possible to automate, yes - everything is. But this is one of the more difficult ones, and I think that there are only a few people who could. It certainly wouldn't be something the masses could develop. And even then, just minor changes to the produced characters make the system much harder to automate.

I also suggest adding an extra line below the prompt if they're waiting on your reply to a botcheck, as aetherspace can be very spammy, primarily for the pilot and empath (I spam grid modules a lot). I actually missed an Oneiroi shipt botcheck due to my grid modules and clarity spam, but luckily caught the tell a minute later. I now gag grid modules to another window, but hey.

EDIT: And yes, I support a slivvenhunter module or other method of them getting the experience the crew is.
Xavius2010-02-26 00:34:04
QUOTE (Estarra @ Feb 25 2010, 03:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
How do you make a captcha in text? I mean, as dumb as it sounds, it would solve everything, I just don't get how it would work.

http://pratham.name/post/26138899/7-segment-ascii-captcha

That with color coding should be sufficient, really.


_ _
| _| |_
| _| _|

Please type the number or numbers that match the color of your tells.


EDIT: Ok, so, can't color code in code boxes and can't properly space without a code box. Whatever. Imagination, ahoy.
Kharaen2010-02-26 02:03:48
Hopefully the captcha would be really big and really bright. A lot of text can fly by very quickly when aetherhunting.
Mirami2010-02-26 02:37:46
Against the idea, since I fail at reading these, and a side effect will be, people who aren't AFK have to scroll back up to the captcha, missing what's actually going on, and get smashed by whatever they're hunting. All the modules are spammy, and while I like the idea of an automated bot-check, I'm not sure a captcha is a feasible solution for aetherspace.

Maybe have some ascii artists draw arrows pointing left or right, and ask what direction the arrow is pointing? that seems like it'd be easier than a captcha, and also harder to bot if you make the box 120 wide, ten or twelve lines high, and vary where in the box the arrow appears (so you can't choose the side with more non-whitespace characters, and go from there).

( I. E. a plain arrow, an arrow filled with #######, @@@@@, &&&&&, etc.)

EDIT: Editing the colours for ease of seeing would be cool too, or having a noticable border of red or another bright, bright colour.
Rodngar2010-02-26 02:48:52
Implement a tangible reward for attacking other aetherships. Right now, it is not worth the trouble it is.

The most obvious is gold, experience, or power. Take your pick, just make sure that the rewards are worth the trouble or you have wasted time.