What you want, then, is a guild with bad leadership that's more interested in self-promotion than its newbies. May I suggest the Cacophony?

Those tasks are purely voluntary on the whole, and do vary widely from guild to guild (I think Shadowdancers might be the pushiest about trying to encourage people to move through them as far as Glom's concerned). On the whole, their primary purpose is to 1) Learn more about the guild, 2) More tightly integrate your character with the guild's concepts, and 3) Get guildranks for doing it.

I'm not sure if there is any guild that actually requires advancement, though. Nor has there ever been, to my knowledge.

Edit: "Requires" as in "Advance / take the tests or we boot you."

..so, a lack of hoops means that it doesn't care about its newbies/members? I'm sorry, but people don't need hoops to feel accepted and like a part of the whole. Its that sort of sentiment I dislike.

lol? Did you just say Hallifax sucks the least? Celest is in far better position than Hallifax. The only advantages Hallifax has over Celest is that their cosmic isn't raided 24/7 and most people just ignore Hallifax because it is in no way a threat at all.

Read the next post down.

Every guild has a guild structure. That's part of being a guild. The structure is simply there to provide options for integration / advancement on the whole. The more ranks you earn, the more tightly bonded you are with the guild ideals (theoretically).

If you want little tests, you should try the Shofangi. It's basically one test, which is "I wanna do this" and reciting an old verse. There's also going to Hallifax, where the Aeromancers are so new that they doubtfully have anything set in stone, and the new guilds will have nothing set in stone when you join.

Yeah, I'll suggest Hallifax for you.

Celest has Inagin.

Should I continue?

Blacktalon definitely used to be "Do this or GTFO." But, like I said, that may have all changed. A lot of guilds used to be that you had to jump through their hoops or you weren't allowed to be GFed beyond whatever rank they chose (usually 3?). If it was optional, it wouldn't be an issue, but when you were paralyzed in the guild, that wasn't really enjoyable.

I could start naming a whole host of unwanted in Hallifax. Lets not go down this road. More on topic, if you choose Hallifax, you've only one guild choice thus far. So if you end up hating mage combat, you're stuck moving to another org, or just being miserable until another class comes out. Any other org (Besides Gaudi, who is in the same boat.) four other options.

The Spiritsingers, Serenwilde bards, don't make you do guild advancement if you don't want to. There is a list of tasks, but nobody pushes you to do any of them. It's an incredibly laidback guild, which I totally love.

But then again there's not a lot of RP either. So if you want RP but not being pushed to do guild things, you might find that combination hard to find.

In a sense, you and Xenthos are both right. 1) Most guilds will not kick you out for refusing to do advancement tasks. The last guild to openly admit to that practice was the Paladins, and I don't know if they still do that. 2) Most guilds really want you to do them anyways. Some guilds' tasks are well thought out and designed to facilitate your assimilation into the guild. All of them at least hold that as an ideal. Thus, concerned guild leaders will usually try to funnel you into doing them. If you would rather subtlely thumb your nose at the guild leaders, you should stick to a guild that just plain isn't concerned about you. (Expect the same results in your GR.)

These 'hoops' you speak of are not a matter of making anyone feel accepted or part of the whole. They are set up so that (From what I have seen in my army of alts) to give someone a means to advance withint he guild while aiding them in their development with their understanding of the guilds and cities role, and their place within the big picture. The advancement of ranks within each guild fits within the niche of the roleplay of that guild. Any guild leader should want you to advance within the guild as it helps your understanding of your role within Lusternia. The idea is to make such tasks attractive while still maintaining a sense of who the guild is.

As stated in numerous other topics, it is very very difficult to be booted from a guild. Just don't break laws or do anything stupid and you can sit at GR1. Often times though a guild will acknowledge achievements you have done and still give you guildfavours. And most of the things you say you wish to accomplish garner guild favours within numerous guilds.

In Lusternia, the whole is the sum of its parts. Each guild wants to make sure its parts are the best they can be.

Hope it makes sense

I definitely understand. And like I said, things may have changed. I don't mind there being "if you want to do this, you can earn a GF for it." But in the past there were certain things you absolutely had to do if you wanted to be allowed to rise above GR2 or whatever. That is the only thing I disagree with--that I could do tons and tons for the city and guild, but because I didn't want to write an essay on yadda yadda that I'm simply not allowed to be recognized for it.

That is my only issue. Having the option of tasks is great and fine--the enforcement via paralysis, however, is what I dislike. And lots of guilds used to have just that.

I think the best bet for your situation would be A) Hallifax or maybe the Tahtetso. They have a points system. Not sure of any others like that save for the Cantors and notes. Anyone know of any others?

Shofangi has a "point" system, or something similar at least. The only thing you have to do is show that you know how the kata system work, and recite a short note, and that's it.

Come to Gaudi and join the templars. Our structure is so loose, we don't actually exist! (yet.)

I know the aquamancers sorta have a system for recording who deserves favours after they get to guild rank three (full member in our books) but it's pretty rare that an GR 1/2 will actually do anything helpful at all.

Spiritsingers, GR doesn't matter for anything besides hard-coded privs. We have a gigantic list of tasks, but they're all optional, nothing's required. Do the graduation rite, get a favour and a free instrument, or don't to them, we don't really care. You can really pick your own level of involvement.

EDIT: I'd suggest Glomdoring, though, because of all the villages, if there's a Glom guild you like. Villages are great for learning questing, influencing, and commodity-finding.

If the pallies kicked people out for not doing advancement stuff, Lucan should've been kicked out ages ago, considering he couldn't do them because I wasn't playing for a year and a half.

I know the Geos won't force you to advance if you're not inclined to do so. They'll encourage it, but it's not forced. Then again, I think our guild is kind of on the dying side. :\\ And no, that isn't an undead Mag pun. >.>

You're Lucan?

Interesting.