Ssaliss2010-03-23 19:14:52
If there were a few abilities that worked like that (perhaps the more powerful ones, like Divinefire etc) I'd like that idea. However, I feel most (or at least the basic ones, such as ascending to the havens and perhaps stats/RP-skills) should remain permanent once bought, so that a demi that just came back from inactivity or the demis that don't bash/influence as much still have some things to play with.
Unknown2010-03-23 19:17:55
QUOTE (Eventru @ Mar 23 2010, 12:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Right, though I'm sort of left wondering as to what good essence is once they're 'achieved', so to speak. Once you've bought everything, then? Essence is just sitting there again. This seems to me like we have the opportunity to address a great swathe of problems (the 'I've bought everything, now what?' essence problem, the 'Demigods want more RP stuff' and the perceived 'Demigods are too imbalancing' stuff. I think just attaching a one-time cost isn't particularly productive - we might as well just jump the experience-to-level across the board, it seems like.)
To Zarquan: I can understand that. We could do something like, low cost and, as you buy things, the price scales, so to speak. Assign everything a 'weight', and the higher your weight, the larger a percent hike on cost goes up, or something. Just kind of a random idea. There could also be 'permanent' things and 'temporary' things - so the ability to become an avatar might be bought once and be with you forever, but +2str +2con would require being rebought once a month. Just an idea! I personally would rather see people have the option to push for more, versus be limited. But I guess I just prefer soft caps versus hard caps.
To Zarquan: I can understand that. We could do something like, low cost and, as you buy things, the price scales, so to speak. Assign everything a 'weight', and the higher your weight, the larger a percent hike on cost goes up, or something. Just kind of a random idea. There could also be 'permanent' things and 'temporary' things - so the ability to become an avatar might be bought once and be with you forever, but +2str +2con would require being rebought once a month. Just an idea! I personally would rather see people have the option to push for more, versus be limited. But I guess I just prefer soft caps versus hard caps.
I think it'd be the responsibility of the admin to make appropriate prices and have enough interesting abilities in the shop in order to avoid someone getting everything quickly.
Unknown2010-03-23 19:23:09
Really though, if you want an uber simplified system:
That's my idea in a nutshell, I do think what you (admin) are asking and what I am proposing are really similar/same.
QUOTE
Demigods:
* Get nothing but certain abilities when they reach level 100. You have to buy everything else in an essence shop.
Ex-vernals/Paragons/whatever:
*Are ascended by the org, they get nothing; they are the same as demis. You have to buy everything else in an essence shop. They get cults.
VA/TA:
*Same as what VA's are right now. There can only be one of these per org chosen from ex-vernals.
Sparks/Loadouts/whatever:
*All paragons/demis/VA's can invest the abilities they've purchased into a limited configuration. Each ability will have their weight and the person cannot exceed their maximum capability.
* Get nothing but certain abilities when they reach level 100. You have to buy everything else in an essence shop.
Ex-vernals/Paragons/whatever:
*Are ascended by the org, they get nothing; they are the same as demis. You have to buy everything else in an essence shop. They get cults.
VA/TA:
*Same as what VA's are right now. There can only be one of these per org chosen from ex-vernals.
Sparks/Loadouts/whatever:
*All paragons/demis/VA's can invest the abilities they've purchased into a limited configuration. Each ability will have their weight and the person cannot exceed their maximum capability.
That's my idea in a nutshell, I do think what you (admin) are asking and what I am proposing are really similar/same.
Eventru2010-03-23 19:23:30
QUOTE (Sojiro @ Mar 23 2010, 03:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think it'd be the responsibility of the admin to make appropriate prices and have enough interesting abilities in the shop in order to avoid someone getting everything quickly.
Sure. However, the only way to keep demigods from becoming 'bored' would be to make everything cost 50-75m, 200m for something like divinefire, etc. Otherwise, they'll have it all in a couple of weeks. Then I'm kind of left with the feeling it's going to be 'Okay, what now?'.
Then it will become a game of constantly having to add 'more' for them, which will never outpace essence income, so people will just have essence stockpiles to buy it, etc etc etc.
Unknown2010-03-23 19:25:51
Somewhat ironically, Lendren and Xenthos will become the most powerful individuals ever. 
Unknown2010-03-23 19:26:28
QUOTE (Eventru @ Mar 23 2010, 12:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Sure. However, the only way to keep demigods from becoming 'bored' would be to make everything cost 50-75m, 200m for something like divinefire, etc. Otherwise, they'll have it all in a couple of weeks. Then I'm kind of left with the feeling it's going to be 'Okay, what now?'.
Then it will become a game of constantly having to add 'more' for them, which will never outpace essence income, so people will just have essence stockpiles to buy it, etc etc etc.
Then it will become a game of constantly having to add 'more' for them, which will never outpace essence income, so people will just have essence stockpiles to buy it, etc etc etc.
That's a problem with everything. Trademasters keep asking for more and more comms, artiewhores want more and more arties, etc. I don't think this is a battle you can win, hehe.
Rodngar2010-03-23 19:28:35
That's what we're saying.
Xenthos2010-03-23 19:37:40
QUOTE (Eventru @ Mar 23 2010, 03:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Sure. However, the only way to keep demigods from becoming 'bored' would be to make everything cost 50-75m, 200m for something like divinefire, etc. Otherwise, they'll have it all in a couple of weeks. Then I'm kind of left with the feeling it's going to be 'Okay, what now?'.
Then it will become a game of constantly having to add 'more' for them, which will never outpace essence income, so people will just have essence stockpiles to buy it, etc etc etc.
Then it will become a game of constantly having to add 'more' for them, which will never outpace essence income, so people will just have essence stockpiles to buy it, etc etc etc.
Well... I suggested earlier an idea of being able to (for an initial cost) buy the ability to grant certain Karma Seal blessings.
Then you could invoke them upon yourself / your friends, from the supply of those you purchased. Without having to use up karma.
It would then cost essence per hour instead of karma, with the essence cost rising the more of these you have activated at once.
Even if this idea itself isn't liked, I imagine you could still use the principal; you're not forced to keep re-buying the same ability (you always have it available), but if you choose to use it it has an essence drain while active. The drain would get larger the more you have going.
This would at least "slow down" being able to buy everything as people use their neat skills, and even if they're all bought... it'll take a fair amount of essence to keep juggling them all.
(Wouldn't work for a lot of one-time effects, but it could work pretty well for long-term effect purchases)
Lendren2010-03-23 19:39:57
QUOTE (Zarquan @ Mar 23 2010, 03:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I really, really, really don't want to keep buying my special abilities and/or paying upkeep on them.
The only people who like essentially-obligatory makework are the people who don't have to do it. Like we don't have enough things we have to do already.
QUOTE (Zarquan @ Mar 23 2010, 03:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Somewhat ironically, Lendren and Xenthos will become the most powerful individuals ever.
Hardly. You know that if I can buy stuff, I'm mostly going to buy non-combat things anyway. (And that having combat stuff doesn't make me a combatant already, look at my ARTIFACT LIST as it is.)
Zallafar2010-03-23 20:22:28
I didn't know I was so OP that we needed to take away most of my demi-stuff.
So for people like Nejii (sorry, you're the example other people use) the proposal is to not only strip their Ascendancy, but also to take away most of their Demi rewards as well.
This whole thread makes me unhappy.
So for people like Nejii (sorry, you're the example other people use) the proposal is to not only strip their Ascendancy, but also to take away most of their Demi rewards as well.
This whole thread makes me unhappy.
Lehki2010-03-23 20:25:21
I kinda like the idea of having to pay to upkeep certain abilities, except you'd have to find a very good balance on costs with that. Easy enough to maintain a few of the important ones without having to spend hours bashing for essence every single day.
I also liked Xenthos' 'essence for karma blessings'.
EDIT: Like if I had to spend some extra time every other weekend or maybe once a month in order to be able to ascend, seek, divine fire, and zap. I'd be fine with that.
I also liked Xenthos' 'essence for karma blessings'.
EDIT: Like if I had to spend some extra time every other weekend or maybe once a month in order to be able to ascend, seek, divine fire, and zap. I'd be fine with that.
Unknown2010-03-23 20:37:02
To be honest, a lot of you are hung up over having to repurchase seek, etc., and I'm sure if it really is a nonissue, the admin can just keep those the moment you get demigod. It's the combat buffs that have been the problem.
Unknown2010-03-23 20:39:01
I'm okay with having to pay upkeep or refresh a certain few abilities periodically, but having to go to a shop to do this would be a bit of a drag. Already feel like I'm running from place to place to keep things stocked, filled, kept up, etc...
Unknown2010-03-23 20:39:33
QUOTE (Zallafar @ Mar 23 2010, 09:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I didn't know I was so OP that we needed to take away most of my demi-stuff.
So for people like Nejii (sorry, you're the example other people use) the proposal is to not only strip their Ascendancy, but also to take away most of their Demi rewards as well.
This whole thread makes me unhappy.
So for people like Nejii (sorry, you're the example other people use) the proposal is to not only strip their Ascendancy, but also to take away most of their Demi rewards as well.
This whole thread makes me unhappy.
Me too.
It's backdooring the essence shop, and circumventing the initial issue about VA (which, combat wise, is really fear aura and aegis).
The only demigod feature that has truly been problematic has been DF. So address DF. The rest of it is beyond silly. It's lets throw a grind at peoples feet for no reason.
Honestly, the admin don't need to rip the guts out of the system as a whole.
Fix DF
Fix Fear aura
Fix Aegis
And if the admin think they are a problem, pull back the numbers of VAs.
All done.
Unknown2010-03-23 20:50:19
Well of course it's backdooring the essence shop because demis and above have obviously wanted the idea for quite a long time. Kill 2 birds with one stone and so on.
How is it circumventing when people have repeatedly stated 'hey sure let's analyze OP ascendant ability here, we can change it to do x'?
Once more, and again, which ties to your complaints, the issue is with combat buffs, not demigod as a whole, so I'm in full support of keeping seek, whatever without having to grind further for it.
How is it circumventing when people have repeatedly stated 'hey sure let's analyze OP ascendant ability here, we can change it to do x'?
Once more, and again, which ties to your complaints, the issue is with combat buffs, not demigod as a whole, so I'm in full support of keeping seek, whatever without having to grind further for it.
Eventru2010-03-23 21:02:57
QUOTE (Zarquan @ Mar 23 2010, 04:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm okay with having to pay upkeep or refresh a certain few abilities periodically, but having to go to a shop to do this would be a bit of a drag. Already feel like I'm running from place to place to keep things stocked, filled, kept up, etc...
I doubt it would be a 'shop'. I find that to be pretty contrived tbh. At a glance I'd suggest maybe the demigod havens, or one of the fonts beneath it (where you have access to the various orgs), if it wasn't something innate to begin with. Someplace with roleplay significance that you travel through a lot anyways.
Stuff like seek, ascend to havens - I think this is some basic stuff that's fine for demigods to have. Refresh, divinefire, zap. I think these should have an upkeep cost - and I think the concern of 'having to bash hours every day just to upkeep' could become a problem, thus why I suggest it not be an upkeep per day, but say per 2 weeks, or per months (so you spend, I don't know, x essence to get divinefire, and you'd have it for a RL month. So then you'd have 30 RL days to bash up x essence again so when it fades you can just snatch it back up).
I hate per-day upkeeps, personally. I find them obnoxious, and would vastly prefer a one-time cost for a limited time ability, if it was me.
Razenth2010-03-23 21:06:00
Ooo ooo, that creepy pool that just sits there in the Havens! Or that suspicious dwarf 'pilgrim' that seemed to have mysteriously disappeared... they can sell us our abilities!
Zynna2010-03-23 21:07:25
I don't like the idea of upkeeps. It's enough when you come back from taking a break to have to rebuy decayed supplies, update system with latest changes, etc, your pets permanently died (that last one was particularly painful ... I could only buy stable time for 36 months in advance and all of my pets permanently died so I now have to get the gold to purchase another pet and level them up/train accordingly).
If you worked hard to bash up your essence to buy a few perks those shouldn't disappear just because you didn't also bash up enough essence for you to take an extended leave of absence. If the admin goes the upkeep route (which I really hope they won't) at least limit the upkeep to only being charged on days that you are actually in the realm. That way if you take a break you don't lose your hard work.
If you worked hard to bash up your essence to buy a few perks those shouldn't disappear just because you didn't also bash up enough essence for you to take an extended leave of absence. If the admin goes the upkeep route (which I really hope they won't) at least limit the upkeep to only being charged on days that you are actually in the realm. That way if you take a break you don't lose your hard work.
Eventru2010-03-23 21:10:02
QUOTE (Zynna @ Mar 23 2010, 05:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I don't like the idea of upkeeps. It's enough when you come back from taking a break to have to rebuy decayed supplies, update system with latest changes, etc, your pets permanently died (that last one was particularly painful ... I could only buy stable time for 36 months in advance and all of my pets permanently died so I now have to get the gold to purchase another pet and level them up/train accordingly).
If you worked hard to bash up your essence to buy a few perks those shouldn't disappear just because you didn't also bash up enough essence for you to take an extended leave of absence. If the admin goes the upkeep route (which I really hope they won't) at least limit the upkeep to only being charged on days that you are actually in the realm. That way if you take a break you don't lose your hard work.
If you worked hard to bash up your essence to buy a few perks those shouldn't disappear just because you didn't also bash up enough essence for you to take an extended leave of absence. If the admin goes the upkeep route (which I really hope they won't) at least limit the upkeep to only being charged on days that you are actually in the realm. That way if you take a break you don't lose your hard work.
No one is suggesting an upkeep, to my knowledge. I suggested buying your abilities for a period of time. IE you spend x essence and get the ability to divinefire for 30 days. So once those 30 days are up, you can buy it again for x essence, or not. Or wait a week. Once it's bought you have it and there's no daily upkeep etc.
Lehki2010-03-23 21:11:04
QUOTE (Zynna @ Mar 23 2010, 05:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I don't like the idea of upkeeps. It's enough when you come back from taking a break to have to rebuy decayed supplies, update system with latest changes, etc, your pets permanently died (that last one was particularly painful ... I could only buy stable time for 36 months in advance and all of my pets permanently died so I now have to get the gold to purchase another pet and level them up/train accordingly).
If you worked hard to bash up your essence to buy a few perks those shouldn't disappear just because you didn't also bash up enough essence for you to take an extended leave of absence. If the admin goes the upkeep route (which I really hope they won't) at least limit the upkeep to only being charged on days that you are actually in the realm. That way if you take a break you don't lose your hard work.
If you worked hard to bash up your essence to buy a few perks those shouldn't disappear just because you didn't also bash up enough essence for you to take an extended leave of absence. If the admin goes the upkeep route (which I really hope they won't) at least limit the upkeep to only being charged on days that you are actually in the realm. That way if you take a break you don't lose your hard work.
I think the idea was, you pay a cost, you get the ability for a certain period of time. It wouldn't continually drain your essence until you gave up the ability or something.
