Talan beat you to it, please read my response to the apparently disappearing post.

Perhaps in the original design document there was something about orgs ascending Vernal Gods, but to my knowledge this was not specifically stated to players.
The first and only case of actual Ascension was Ayridion, until then it had not been announced. That did not work and so we got Ascendants.

Xavius honey, I'll give you a moment to realise you are quoting me talking about two separate systems.

?

Hey, so, remember that one time that it was announced that Obama became President of the United States? I was horribly misled into thinking that that meant he was actually elected. I didn't know that it had to happen twice. Man, I'm such a retard, not realizing that W is still in office.

Ascended God = Originally the reward for the winner of the ascension event, the only time there was ever an announced chance for a character to become a Full-God ingame.

Ascendants = Created because player gods will not work, never intended or represented to become full-gods because such would defeat the purpose of creating them in the first place.


If you want to argue that Ascendants were originally going to be full-gods then you are simply wrong as the Ascendant system was created because that did not work.

I believe Xenthos already quoted where Estarra stated that vernals were meant to be full RP Gods, so I'm not sure how that makes someone simply wrong for arguing it

Xenja? Xinja? Ninthos?

Seriously, what the heck are you talking about?

People knew about Ascendants / Vernal Ascendants long before Ayridion was raised. You know that the caption of Lusternia is "Age of Ascendance," right? There was lots of speculation and discussion about what it would be like, and everyone expected it to be full RP gods. That was, after all, the original intention.

The decision path changed, but Estarra herself, in the quoted post, stated that it was originally intended to be a full RP god situation. Why oh why are you randomly /diverting the thread?

You know, you're really looking like a suspect source here yourself.

Especially as Estarra herself stated that the Ascendant system was designed to be RP gods to begin with. Please go find me a quote where she said it was not intended to be RP gods originally before changing her mind about the path to take.

Doesnt work because cutting off the foot of persons 5, 6 and 7 would free me from said shackles.

... so you're completely fine with crippling 3 other people to save yourself?

No as I pointed out I feel Xenthos is getting the shaft and he above all should keep his VAness over other candidates in Glomdoring.

The problem is that I won't get to. And, assuming I'm still a GM at the time... I'm going to have to vote to strip it from myself.

As you can tell, the situation really frustrates / infuriates me.

It's a metaphor, in which the person is an organization and the foot is one or more VAs. The lions are whatever happens when you can't pay the penalties.

Yes, because the other VAs really didn't do anything to deserve getting VA.

Let's see I invested a lot in Nyla.. a lot. Went bleh one day suicided. Got the character back but it cost me a lot personally and in game wise.

From my numerous credit cards I am fast approaching the 2k mark on money actually spent on Lusternia.

I know what it feels like to feel fully invested in Lusternia.

More invested than someone who has EARNED more than 30,000 credits?

Oh look, another rash move made by the administration.

Hey, Estarra. Idea! Instead of half-releasing something, why don't you fully release something so that organizations can fully expect when you throw something like this out there. There are plenty of people in every organization who have invested time and effort into Vernal Ascendant and especially into the Ascendancy skill. Though honestly, I don't see the point of replying or complaining, more often than not it isn't even taken into consideration.

EDIT: And the above comment isn't to be snarky. It's just that there is no evidence to the contrary. We have smob buffs that were done only a few days after the 9-smob raid from Glomdoring. We have the Domoth nerfs that came when Glomdoring held most of them. It took the DarkRebirth envoy 9 months to be looked out and it sat in submitted limbo forever. My point is that it seems pretty deliberate that the administration is trying to knock down Glomdoring without even thinking about or testing what they plan on implementing. The fact that it took so many people from three orgs to take down one Demon Lord (the weakest in fact) is proof of this.

On the other hand, if you keep calling out that there's not going to be any changes, the thread will get locked, and then there won't be.

Ideally if that doesn't happen we can figure something out that at least dissatisfies all parties less than what's being suggested.

In general, this is a positive change that really should have been addressed when Vernals were first conceived or at least soon thereafter, it would have greatly assuaged any feelings of discontent over losing effort put into working on trans'ing Ascendancy. That being said, it's also understandable that current Vernals feel a bit put off with the announcement of said change. I would suggest the following course of action:

1.) An increasing power keep for additional Vernals for an organization as described in the initial few posts, allow 2 Vernals per org for free.
2.) Set the power refund for removal Vernal-hood to a 300k power max (As time required to gather 700k power is comparable to what it currently takes to reach demigod anyhow).
3.) Allow a full refund or at least a majority refund of essence used in Ascendancy to be refunded to the player whom loses Vernal status.
4.) Mark those whom have lost Vernal but remain in the org with an honours line that is lost if they ever leave said organization. While they carry the mark, they may be raised again to Vernal for a reduced power cost (let's say, 600k power - to be in line with the amount refunded.)
5.) Lower power income proportionately to address power gluts caused by a decrease in power usage that would have otherwise been used to raise Vernals.

It's more or less unfortunate that regardless of changes in this direction, a segment of players will feel put off for losing achievements that they have worked for and some compensation, such as what is listed above are some ideas on how to address that. On a whole, though, it is a positive change to begin putting attention to the problem behind Vernals and demigods it begins to skew combat too far towards extremes (and hence discourages new players from entering combat due to feeling useless).

I could continue arguing, just boils down to... Full RP Gods predated ascendants, Ayridion was not an Ascendant he was an Ascended God who became the Ascendant Ilyarin. Read the thread it's all there but it's 4am here.

Back on topic:

Really, until there is a reason to keep an rp'er as an ascendant their days are numbered. You could have ten "slots" and the second that enough combatants come around Xenthos would be voting himself out. Unless Ascendant changes enough or a second version is created that has no personal combat benefit... which was actually really what Ascendant was supposed to be.

Again, I could see sending Ascendant more to the combat side of things and creating a second separate option that focuses primarily on the org itself, ooh with alterna-cults divorced from the divine that wander around the org performing rituals (bloodborn/coffemud rituals/enchanting in other games, where you actually have to do something), when there is one of these they would need to be performing all the rituals alone but they could divy them up when more than one is raised.

Perhaps a Department working for the Collective that performs periodic maintenance on the generators but each generator requires a different participant who is working under the Authorised Department Lead. This quest could be done every so often to provide some benefit, maybe each year it improves the efficiency of the generators and sends a bit of extra power into the matrix.

Ooh, Serenwilde could beat drums and smoke weed then chat with their ancestors for their goodwill and suddenly there is power in mother.

Weird examples yes but effectively the same thing.
Personally I really like the idea of a skillset revolving around your org rather than the domoths, it makes more sense actually for those raised as paragons. Serenwilde could smoke up and chat with the spirits, Celest could clean the pool, Glomdoring could kill more babies, Magnagora could kill more everyone, Gaudiguch could have drinking parties and Hallifax could have paper work!. All of the abilities in the skill would be the same regardless of the org, they could just be presented differently.

Saran, you're talking about implementations, and everyone arguing with you is talking about intentions or designs.



I think it'd be cool to have combat-type VAs that are given useful ways in which to shine through combat, even if just Domoth battles or minor buffs to allies in the room, and roleplay-type VAs with their own cults for more focused and charismatic groupies. (Just don't drink the punch.)