I'm talking about things like ascendancy. Combatants get to do everything you've just mentioned... -plus- have the chance to be rewarded with additional bonuses like cults and some roleplay bonuses by virtue of being rewarded for their service by the city with vernal. Changes like this one mean that it's just not open to people who can't fight. Whether or not you can still be influential isn't the point. The point is that generally people look up to fighters more, they get more bonuses in many cities, they get rank faster, people listen to them more -and- they get rewarded by the city. Which, yes. Lusternia is a conflict driven game. But why should certain rewards only really be open to those who do fight. Why shouldn't non-combatants be able to gain an honour that's on the same level. Many of those who don't fight still contribute to a high degree.

Sure, an org can hold a ceremony and make a post to 'honour' someone, but it's not the same. You can look at people, and see the mechanical rewards from things such as ascendant. Why should that only be open to one side of the game?

"Because Ascendants get you Domoths and Domoths require combat." would be the usual rote, here.

However, I see your point with roleplaying devices (though I'm not sure of the inherent RP in Ascendance as a concept and skillset having any major value) especially when it comes to cults and being, well, esteemed. Cults are painfully underused right now and this pretty much trashes the concept. Not that it wasn't fairly meh to begin with.

To Estarra's credit, she originally said one per org, period, and it's us who talked her out of it.

Also to her credit, as long as population growth is logarithmic and power gain is linear, there will eventually come a day where an org is sitting on power and can't figure out who to raise with it. This would be a Bad Thing.

It's hard not to be sympathetic to the people who're both active and bound to lose VA on account of this, though. Tough cookie.

Why shouldn't there be something that's special for fighters in a game that's so heavy on PvP? Not that I wouldn't love to see more purely RP rewards and mechanics out there for people.

Last time I looked this game was also about RP. It isn't fair that -almost everything- is direct towards one aspect of this game. It is :censor: to say that simply because it is PvP heavy, means that fighters should get the abundance of "special" things. There should be something for everyone.

Well, that was what my point was. Why can't we have an alternative to the current form that will still allow for people to be rewarded without the mechanical 'combat' advantages?

I agree with them being underused. But these things do have potential. And is some of the reason they're underused because they're going to people who don't have as much time for roleplay due to either being combatants, or inactive, or in positions that require them to be doing things all the time? I'm not sure on that point, so I'm not saying that's it for sure. Just that I would like to see a chance for myself and others to be rewarded for what they -do- do outside of combat.

Well, that's the beauty of my request, no? I'm not asking it be taken away from fighters or to put non-combatants on equal ground. I'm asking for an alternative method of reward that is still mechanical, but while leaving vernal to the combatants so they still get their shiny advantages and rewards for -their- hard work.

There isn't a an abundance of special things, there's just ascendancy. Anything else is just whatever special treatment orgs are giving out to their fighters.

I think it's the nature of that special something, and not that they have a special something over the non-PvPers. If obtaining fearaura was earned based off of maxing out all the FFA, Duel, and War Games achievements, for instance (and really, why wouldn't you have fearaura at that point? Ha), I'm sure most people disinterested in combat would fuss a lot less.

But if, from a roleplay perspective, the one status you can gain as a paragon of your org and a most model member of society also has so many combat bonuses that picking joeblow orghopper is preferred over anyone else because he's the best PKer in the game, you might get an issue!

As somebody said earlier, this means that with the exception being somebody who goes inactive, nobody else will ever become a VA for a loooong, loooooong time - if ever. After this change, you have missed the train. VA numbers can only go so high before population limits in the game or the organization take play, meaning they can no longer keep up with the upkeep.

EDIT: As a good friend just put it, "the last thing an IRE game needs now is arbitary crap that now nobody else can do'. I think that sums it up VERY nicely.

If you ignore the skill system (and I think you should in this case, since the skill system pretty much is the PvP system), I think you'd be hard pressed to support this assertion. Leader types get GM, GA, and CL. Creative types get the library, theater, and trademaster systems. Team players get villages and aetherspace. Achievers get domoths. Combatants get GC and ascendancy.



I think the concept of "reward" is pushed a little too hard in comparison to "winning." I've got too much on my plate to draft an idea right now, but if everything keeps giving power or defs, you're only going to create a snowballing problem. I think people would feel better if they could see their work pushing their org to the "top"...of whatever. Maybe perks in village influencing, maybe some other visible sign of dominance over the Basin. Way off topic, though!

How about the non-PvP folks benefiting from the efforts of the PvP folks, in the form of Domoth blessings, villages won (non-peaced, of course), etc? Epic quests are a good example of a recently added mechanic for the non-PvP audience, too.


I'm already feeling screwed over by the coming Ascendant changes, and I haven't gotten it yet. If I do get it, I'm just going to feel guilt and pressure to live up to absurdly high expectations.

I wasn't really saying it needs to be power or defs. I just want any sort of comparitive reward. It would solve some of the complaints people have about this cost because much of it was a complaint about the people who were raised for roleplay are likely to lose it now. It would also give people something else to aim for. The two 'bonuses' you mentioned would be the sort of thing that would be appropriate. Tie the ideas in with culture bonuses instead of power and strength.

And it's not really off-topic. I think (hope) a new system like this would solve some of the complaints people do have about this vernal cost. They can keep -some- sort of reward that doesn't make such a big thing of the power and defs you bring to the org but allows them to still earn something for being an active participant in the game and org.

I agree with Nymerya that it would be nice to have something as flashy as Vernal for people that don't fight, since with this change no one but the top fighters will get it unless you're Seren, where the mediocre fighters will get it.

Hell no. That just creates a perpetual imbalance that can't be surmounted.

Its a good move from the obvious reason, but also for the reason that it might entice people who want Vernal, and who work for it, to spread the heck out.

You don't need a reward for playing. Play the game how you enjoy it and there's your reward. No one asked for ascendants. This idea was birthed by the administrators and players made the choice to raise those they felt deserved it most, for the good of each respective org. Combatants or good bashers make or break an org. Just face it. I've never heard of players quitting Lusty because their library was in poor shape. Morale is based off how well an org does offensively or defensively. People will pay and play more if they have a chance to succeed in those areas.

In regard to vernal cost, it seems like a band-aid solution. Just like the domoth changes. What's the point of dominating if you're going to be punished for it with limitations? I'm not sure if it'd help things and as Iasmos mentioned, potential future VAs will feel shafted.

It's an absolutely ridiculous change no matter how you slice it. Bitterness over Glom having more VA's does not justify this change.

Except that Seren has about as many (and were about to raise one, which would put Seren's total at 6, Glom's at 7).

Not really a whole lot of "more" there, both forests are screwed with this as-suggested.

And no, a 500,000 power "Special Honours" doesn't really cut it. "Hey guys, we're going to take away the skillset that you earned. We're going to just randomly decide that you don't deserve it, though your organization thought you did. Yes, you already have it, but too bad! But hey, you get this shiny honours line after sucking up 500,000 org power into the abyss."

:/

Anything that works against the sort of combatant-katamari that glom became is a good thing, regardless of what org is currently acting as the Prince.

Then why wasn't this done way back when Serenwilde was at 6 Ascendants? :/

Or, at the very least, told to us then that this was in the works?

PS: All of our Ascendants would still be Demigods after this, so, yeah. That doesn't help you at all in that situation. We're losing our Ascendant skillset, which (except for like, 2 skills) isn't really even all that combat-oriented in the first place.